sabotabby: raccoon anarchy symbol (fuck patriarchy)
[personal profile] sabotabby
I haven't read any of the articles. Don't really care to. Bad things happening to children is something that I find difficult to read about and so I don't do so recreationally.

But. Whenever a woman publicly accuses a man of raping or molesting her, she is held up for public excoriation. She's accused of lying and worse. Her sexual history is interrogated, her name is dragged through the mud. It's bad enough in the case of a regular man; in the case of someone famous and well-loved, it is exponentially worse.

I don't believe in most cases the trade-off is worth it to lie. I mean, you'd have to be deeply fucked up to put yourself through that.

Date: 2014-02-03 10:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] firinel.livejournal.com
One of the rape apologist articles that I read has basically said that, though. That she's deeply fucked up (by her mother) and that's why she's putting herself through this.

I find thinking about it triggering and tiring.

Date: 2014-02-04 02:57 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] 50-ft-queenie.livejournal.com
For all the talk of her being coached by her mother, Dylan Farrow's letter says that her mother even told her that it was OK to admit it if she'd been lying, that no one would be angry at her.

Date: 2014-02-04 05:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] firinel.livejournal.com
Oh, I agree 100%. 200% even. Those sorts of things are why I find it triggering and tiring.

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Date: 2014-02-03 10:49 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] princealberic.livejournal.com
I completely agree.

The number of falsely reported rapes is very small to begin with, and that's in cases where both people are regular people. In the case of celebrities, what would someone even stand to gain by lying?

It's as you said, you'd have to be deeply fucked up (or spectacularly bad at plotting revenge) to even think it's worth it. Even someone who is starved for attention wouldn't want that particular kind of negative attention. As to revenge, well, what would it do? How much does it take to get a male A, or even B+, lister to be shunned by the entertainment industry? People will still give him support, even if it's implicit. He'll still get work. He'll still get nominations and awards and collaborations with other celebrities. At most his career may suffer a setback for a while but it'll be over in a couple of years. It's always the same thing. And this is if the person speaking out even gets enough attention, otherwise nobody will really talk about it at all.

Are you talking about anyone in particular, btw? I've read two different things about two different celebrities lately.

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Date: 2014-02-03 10:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] culpster.livejournal.com
The only available hard truths are basically truths about the discourse, and you have nailed those.

I want none of the blood sport that this has inspired, that's for sure. None.

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Date: 2014-02-03 11:40 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frandroid.livejournal.com
That was really fantastic. Thank you.

Date: 2014-02-03 11:53 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mendaciloquent.livejournal.com
The funniest thing about all this is how the iron-tight conflation of moral judgement and jurisprudence only appears when the subject of scrutiny is a man, particularly a powerful and famous white man. People spend all fucking day pontificating and judging the motivations and values of other people (and women in particular), yet the moment that person is someone like Woody Allen, we're all supposed to be inflated with the sobriety and restraint of a jury, get bent out of shape over his privacy, his reputation, and so on. It's almost like magic.

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Date: 2014-02-04 07:56 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marlowe1.livejournal.com
If someone is thoroughly pissed off about Roman Polanski's freedom and career and Sean Penn's reputation being intact after he pounded on Madonna with a baseball bat were to say that there is just not enough evidence to believe that Allen did it and point out that Soon-Yi has publicly accused Mia Farrow of being a manipulative and abusive mother who would force her children to engage in false accusations to the point that they actually believed them, would that satisfy you?

Or do you just want to believe that everyone who accuses anyone of molestation is automatically telling the truth, regardless of circumstances?

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Date: 2014-02-04 12:01 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] browngirl.livejournal.com
Thank you for this post.

Date: 2014-02-04 04:20 am (UTC)
ironed_orchid: pin up girl reading kant (intellectual hottie (green))
From: [personal profile] ironed_orchid
That article was close to perfect.

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Date: 2014-02-04 10:08 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] begundan.livejournal.com
Which is why we need to automatically accept any woman's testimony against any man. No questions asked.

Date: 2014-02-04 02:48 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] howlin-wolf-66.livejournal.com
I don't want to accuse anyone, because I wasn't there... I don't want to automatically assume that Allen is guilty of doing it, just because of his problematic history, and I don't want to accuse Dylan of lying...

What I will say is that it's an awful shame that this is being dragged out in public... The idea that we now have a kangaroo court of instant social media 'justice' is not fair to anyone who wants to hold onto a belief that we live in a civilised society... This kind of 'fate by pronouncement' that is going on right now brings no good for anyone, neither the accused or the alleged victim - because just as you may have the support of the masses TODAY, you could easily find yourself struggling against the storm tomorrow.

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Date: 2014-02-05 12:15 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mad-bertha.livejournal.com
Hi Sabo, I respect your wish not to read the articles, so this one is really for people who want to look up this part of the case:

Triggery: An Investigative Look at The Woody Allen Case
http://quadcitypat.blogspot.com.au/2014/02/an-investigative-look-at-woody-allen.html?m=1

- good article written by someone with sound experience investigating these cases. Basically compares how such a case would be investigated these days and, on the way, dismantles the argument of Weide, the apologist for Allen. Quite horrifying to think of what it must have been like for Dylan.

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