podcast friday

[sabotabby]

 Go listen to the Wizards & Spaceships episode "Some People Call Me the Space Cowboy." No particular reason. It's about Space Westerns, problematic representation, and why Firefly was bad, actually.

Comments

[makamu]

I think it miiight be worth seeing once, maybe, if you're really interested in Whedon. But it's aged so badly, both in relation to him and stuff that bugged people even at the time (Inara).

Thanks for your comments! I'll just ask you the same thing I asked Tabby above: Me not being a Whedon fan and knowing about all the criticisms going in, do you think the show is so bad that you cannot even get ideas for good deconstructive fanfic out of it? If I find I enjoy some characters or worldbuilding, for instance.

[sabotabby]

FWIW, I have a conspiracy theory that Orphan Black is deconstructive fanfic of Dollhouse and The Expanse is deconstructive fanfic of Firefly. It may be farfetched but my argument for the latter is that Amos seems deliberately the kind of character you would write if your brief was "what if you tried to write Jayne but thought about it in terms of humans rather than tropes?"

[makamu]

FWIW, I have a conspiracy theory that Orphan Black is deconstructive fanfic of Dollhouse and The Expanse is deconstructive fanfic of Firefly. It may be farfetched but my argument for the latter is that Amos seems deliberately the kind of character you would write if your brief was "what if you tried to write Jayne but thought about it in terms of humans rather than tropes?"

Hmm, as I love Orphan Black to bits (while also acknowledging its warts and weird choices - what they did with Delphine and Cosima was deeply weird to me), and I am just in the process of reading and watching The Expanse, this also helps me understand the trouble with Firefly

[greylock]

Wow. I can see that for Orphan Black.

Not so much for Expanse, but now you have said it, Amos and Jayne do have echoes.
Do me fair, Amos had more time to grow, and Wes seems like a cool guy IRL. And a better actor.

alternate opinion from a stranger

[yhlee]

Honestly, you might have fun with it. I say this as someone who went into the shows after they were off the air with almost no prior context; watched all of Buffy but "Seeing Red," loved Angel for idiosyncratic reasons; I hated Firefly for the very specific reason that it was recommended to me as "this is great Asian science fiction" by a friend. Whatever other opinion one may have of Firefly, positive or negative, it's not particularly Asian, so I was "sold" something the show was not and that's not the show's fault. Demonstrably, for its faults, a lot of people have enjoyed Firefly and remain devoted to it. You might get some enjoyment out of it too!

I'm speaking as someone who watched all of Dollhouse, which for my money is a worse-conceived and objectively worse show generally (I think rachelmanija's analysis of the premise is spot on), and enjoyed it A TON as trashy and/or "let's deconstruct this" and/or "time for crackfic!" fun. In real life, if someone wants to watch a Whedon show, absent specific tropes/tastes, I would usually rec trying Firefly looooong before Dollhouse. So it really depends on what you're in it for, and where you set your expectations. I'm a trash panda so I often do get more sheer enjoyment out of objectively trashy TV vs. something that's well-conceived and written.

Re: alternate opinion from a stranger

[makamu]

Thanks for the detailed comment, which genuinely helped me weigh the issue. Much like you, I have a very high tolerance for media being less than perfect, so I'm going to give it a try and see where I come up for air.