podcast friday

[sabotabby]

 I was going to recommend something else but nah. Check out this episode of Writing and Editing, "What to Look for When Hiring a Cover Designer with Rachel Rosen" for a brief, rather funny discussion of cover design do's and don'ts and how to approach working with a cover designer, particularly for indie authors.

Also to make this more interactive, feel free to post covers in the comments and I'll critique them.

Comments

Who.gif?

[greylock]

I can post covers 'til the cows come home.
Buuuuut, I won't.
I'll ask about trends.
Such as the boob-and-butt pose era of a few years back, the horse rider in a wilderness era of the late 1980s, or the random shit on a cover era of the '70s.

How do you use and avoid the tropes? And all that? Digital covers can be not great, but it doesn't mean the old painted covers (with boobs) are any better?

And WHY is this THE WORST?
https://ams3.digitaloceanspaces.com/avmedia/9/7f/97f50a3e-8c72-4294-9bdf-2eff9967ddea.webp

Re: Who.gif?

[sabotabby]

That cover sucks because too much white space. Why is there so much space between the people? It's just not dynamic at all, and it's not a great use of space.

The new covers for his books are boring as shit. They're trying to do minimalism but it's not very sophisticated and they've forgotten that to do minimalism well, you've generally got to have a clever visual pun or something.

Current trend in shitty fantasy that I'll never read is aping those old painted covers, but with digital art. For example Sanderson's latest, which I also hate. The kind of SFFH I do read, meanwhile, is getting way more sophisticated, to the point where you kind of can judge a book by its cover.

Re: Who.gif?

[greylock]

It is a book over that makes me irrationally angry. It may be the book in which nothing happens.

Yeah, those new ones are bad. They scream 'Game of Thrones' knockoffs.
I pretty much agree with the two other points. Like AI, there's something off about digital painting (and colouring in comics).

Of the last link, I only dislike three of those covers (Those Beyond The Wall, The Ministry of Time, The Mercy of Gods). That said, Ministry harkens back to the '60s, so I'd probably get used to it. And the Corey books always have muddy, forgettable covers.

Re: Who.gif?

[sabotabby]

I like digital painting but like any medium, you have to know what works well and what doesn't. And it doesn't imitate oil particularly well. Compare to something like this, which I think is working with the medium rather than making it do something it isn't meant to do.

Re: Who.gif?

[greylock]

Zilla? I think I know that name!
I prefer non-digital art, but that is on the fine-to-good spectrum.
I don't like it, but I can see why it works and I may come to enjoy it.

Not being arty, I'm just a grunt. But, as an example, in the old days, I hated Walt Simonson and Billy the Sink as artists. I've known for a long time that young me was right and wrong.

[gingicat]

One of my least favorite covers is the book jacket to the umbrella edition hardcover of The Dark Is Rising series.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1538496

On the other hand, any book cover (or inside illustration) by Garth Williams is simply awesome. For example: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/24384

[sabotabby]

Holy shit that Dark Is Rising cover is terrible. It has bad typography, the illustration makes it look boring, and there's once again awkward amounts of negative space.

I love the illustration for the Garth Williams one but the typography is terrible and distracting, and they should have gone for a lighter coloured background that would do that image justice.

[gingicat]

I have a distinct recollection on the original cover (well, the 1970s cover) being much better for the typography and background. However, I was somwhat less discriminating.

Speaking of not being a very critical child, Trina Schart Hyman's covers look very cluttered to me now.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/10118
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2118296

[sabotabby]

I find them charming but it wouldn't pass muster anymore. You pretty much have to be type-forward these days.

[greylock]

What the actual FLIP is that cover?
I get it's got a '60s/'70s Enid Blyton vibe. but really. That is TERRIBLE.

I'm actually offended by the aggressive blandness of this cover.

Although, looking, it appears there are a LOT of terribad covers for this sequence.

These are the ones I grew up with, and I think are just objectively some of the best ever:
https://yakbooks.com/book.php?id=26

[sabotabby]

That one slaps. No notes.

[greylock]

That whole series (Green Witch was the first I recall) is awesome.

It was a different age, but that cover grabbed me.
It is one of the greats.

*

[minoanmiss]

makes a note to return

Re: *

[sabotabby]

See you when you do!

[blogcutter]

This is a topic I find endlessly fascinating. I'm not sure if I totally agree about the ideal length of a blurb. Certainly it shouldn't give away any crucial plot surprises, but I do want to know a bit about who the main characters are, and the setting (place and time) if it's important to the story. The amount of attention that a designer should devote to the front cover vs. the back and spine is also very interesting, given the way books are marketed and displayed in libraries and bookstores. I would think that while a front cover must be eye-catching, all three are important these days, when so many readers are seeking out specific books rather than indulging in the joys of in-person browsing and serendipity.

What about dust-jackets? Are they important at all in the indie-publishing world where there are very few hardcover books?

I'm also intrigued by publishers who offer a choice of covers within the same market. Or a kids-oriented cover and an adult-oriented one but the identical text between those covers.

I vividly remember all the covers that were available for Alvin Toffler's Future Shock when it first came out:

https://fontsinuse.com/uses/18879/future-shock-by-alvin-toffler-random-house-ed

[sabotabby]

Dust jackets are increasingly niche. There's a book box trend, where mainly indie or small press authors make elaborate hardcover editions of their books, which are shipped with all kinds of swag. They pull out all the stops—custom illustrations, metallic embossing, sprayed edges, etc. The audience for this is almost exclusively people on BookTok who collect books as art objects. It's primarily in romantasy. Other than that, even for trad pub hardcover is barely a thing.

I love comparing the kids and adult versions of crossover books.

That is a good cover, I approve.

[gingicat]

Also, I remember when Debbie Ohi, whom I knew in person and on IRC through filk, did some really nice Judy Blume covers.

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/18280799
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/216958743

[sabotabby]

Okay, that first one is an example of how to do minimalism well.

[gingicat]

It occurs to me that the first one would also be a great candidate for a Wrong Genre Cover.

[sabotabby]

Oh yes.

[greylock]

"Are You There God? It's Me, Margaret" is legitimately great.

[radiantfracture]

What do you think of the hyper-romantic fantasy covers of the late 1980s / early 1990s?

There's a literary publisher with almost fascinatingly terrible covers that I want to show you, but I can't remember the name, so this is a placeholder.

Where do you think the inexplicable still life photographic cover (mostly but not universally reserved for mysteries and thrillers) came from?

[greylock]

Something about those Pan jackets speaks to me.

[sabotabby]

I had never seen either! Jody Lee's covers are ridiculous and I love them. I miss covers like that.

The only ones like the James Bond ones I've seen have been some of the art for Le Carré, and it seems more on brand for him than Fleming. But I like those too. They're delightfully warped.

I don't think either would be marketable these days, which is unfortunate. They're great mementos of a time when graphic designers made enough money to be on a lot of coke.

[radiantfracture]

In my youth, I daydreamed about having a book with a cover designed by Jody Lee.

I always forget how much artistic production circa 1960 to 1990 can be explained by cocaine.

Picador! Picador is the one with the bad covers.

[sabotabby]

Some of those aren't the worst but some of them. Holy shit. And it's an imprint of Macmillan!

[radiantfracture]

I don't actually hate this, but it's fairly representative of an era.

https://pictures.abebooks.com/isbn/9780330258708-de-300.jpg

[sabotabby]

Jesus Christ. I amend my verdict on the publisher—that rocks my shit.

[gingicat]

You've now reminded me of David Cherry. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1102041

[sabotabby]

WHY IS THE TYPOGRAPHY SO BAD holy shit

leading is your friend

[radiantfracture]

You sound fantastic in the ep btw

Now I am just scrolling genre book covers

[sabotabby]

Thank you! That's also my hobby so I get it.

[frenzy]

A pal of mine does freelance book adverts. I think maybe they've done covers too but lean more into animation. (theyre also looking for a job :x) Their highlight reel is here: https://www.jmawork.com/ It was neat to see the things you said in some of the covers featured in their highlight reel.

[sabotabby]

Oh! Do you think they're affordable for commissions? I tried to do book trailers but I'm not great at motion graphics.

[frenzy]

I've only commissioned them for traditional media. (They did small portraits of my cat for trophies for something we called the Skittles' Cup: which was 10 hours straight of all the different Mario Karts lol) But I'd say reach out and ask anyway! If you'd rather not, I can ask for their rates for you :)

[sabotabby]

That's adorable! I'd love an intro if you're willing?

[frenzy]

Yes! Are you OK with Messenger, or messages in Blue Sky? should we go an email route? Whatever works for you!

[sabotabby]

I'm good with any of the above!

[frenzy]

Imma use IG messenger. FB/IG is acting fucky rn tho. I sent a message and it said it couldnt send. so imma just wait and try again.

[sabotabby]

Definitely something weird. My friend was having a bad time and I sent a very innocuous message (to the effect of wishing we were in the same city, that level of inoffensive) and it wouldn't let me post.