Alien mind-rays and such

[sabotabby]

There has been another round of conspiracy theorizing over at anarchists. It seems like one of the most popular conspiracy theories these days (after "Jews faked the Holocaust!") is that the official story about 9-11 is...well, somewhat lacking. The Left, for obvious reasons, seems to be more willing to entertain such theories than the Right, and I am genuinely interested in knowing who among you believes what.

When it comes to conspiracy theories, and in particular to the Bush administration, I tend to go with Hanlon's Razor, "Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity," and its corollary, "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice."



[Poll #685162]

On a related note, and this is not snark, I'm not entirely sure what a "disinfo agent" or what a "confusionist" is, although I keep running into the latter online. Are they the same as Discordians? Why do they keep showing up on anarchists?

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And now, for your Ted Nugent Quote of the Day:

Though modern man has mostly come to depend on technical services and indulgent conveniences, the pulse of the warrior rages on—even downtown. Mother Nature can be a bitch, but we love her madly anyway. That flash of history from caveman to European to pioneer to city dude reveals a powerful force of intellect, courage, reason, and creativity that is alive and well. Leaping into the millennium on the backs of strong, uppity entrepreneurs and timeless Jeremiah Johnsons, the pecking order is accurate and in place. And there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Conform to this truism or perish. You get what you deserve.

Comments

[xol0tl.livejournal.com]

I think the 911 conspiracy theory stuff is our generation's version of the stories about a faked lunar landing by NASA.

[xol0tl.livejournal.com]

BTW, you should make a desktop calendar out of those Ted Nugent quotes. Course, that might involve paying the Motor City Madman royalties of some sort, but whatever...

[sabotabby]

I think the 911 conspiracy theory stuff is our generation's version of the stories about a faked lunar landing by NASA.

I wonder how widespread that belief is/was.

BTW, you should make a desktop calendar out of those Ted Nugent quotes. Course, that might involve paying the Motor City Madman royalties of some sort, but whatever...

I could illustrate them! Do you think anyone would want that?

[feath.livejournal.com]

One of the things ObL said, right after the twin towers, was "I did not do it." Now, if he actually told the truth (what terrorist WOULDN'T say 'yes, yes! we did it! nanner nanner!') it leaves an interesting question, just who did?

As we know now, the Bush admin is into spin. What comes out of the white house has no bases in reality, only what it want's us to believe. It wanted us to belive ObL and A-Q did it. Of everything and everyone I've heard, I sadly believe ObL's word, more than Bushes.

[xol0tl.livejournal.com]

Hell yeah!

[xol0tl.livejournal.com]

The lunar landing stuff is strangely common. I have a student from Peru whose father was in the military there and told her that the moon landings were fake...

[earthlingmike.livejournal.com]

I heard all of those theories a few years ago. People also attempted to warn Bush that the levee might break when Katrina was aiming for New Orleans and he claimed he didn't know. I think I'm leaning towards thinking Bush knew of the attacks and purposely did nothing, that is the extent of my conspiracy theory views regarding that.

[flummoxicated.livejournal.com]

I think that BushCo has taken advantage of the hysteria caused by the 9/11 attacks. Especially in light of the recent discovery of notes from a Bush aide after the attack, along the lines of "can we tie this to Iraq?"

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

I hate conspiracy theorists. Like things aren't so bad that we need to make them worse?

First of all, they're stupid. The world is complicated and though certain social forces exist nothing is 100% dominant. Conpiracy theorists want everything wrapped up with a little bow.

Secondly, they are embarrassing. in the same newspaper or conversation covering real issues like the Patriot Act or war, the conspiracy theorist pops up to ruin everyone's credibility. 9/11 nuts are offensive to anarchists.

Third, the real lesson is that the right is ready with contingency plans to destroy us. The Patriot Act: ready to go in time of crisis. there's no conspiracy theory there, the right simply (much due to funding) is better prepared and more organized than us. Maybe the conspiracy is that the conspiracy theorists are on the payroll of the right, to make regular folks even more convinced that the left is a bunch of wingnuts.

Fourth, conspiracy theory leaves no room for resistance. The power of those in power is so strong that they know and anticipate everything. The only hope in these scenarios is that the truth is beamed out to people and suddenly everyone understands that they are oppressed (like in "Serenity") and evil is toppled. Well, it's a great theory to explain why you don't need to spend any time doing real organizing.

[earthlingmike.livejournal.com]

I agree with the idea that Bush is into spin. So are 99% of the rest of American politicians. I think it is important to always keep in mind that Bush was obviously determined to go to war in Iraq no matter how absurd or how much spin was required.

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

perfect analogy!

[sabotabby]

The sense that I've got is that it's a burning-of-the-Reichstag-type scenario; Bush needs a big event like Sept. 11 to happen so that he can get away with invading Iraq.

The only thing is, he didn't need a big event to do that, or anything else.

[sabotabby]

I'd never rule out lying after the fact—that happens all the time. But that's not a conspiracy; that's just covering one's arse.

[earthlingmike.livejournal.com]

"First of all, they're stupid. The world is complicated and though certain social forces exist nothing is 100% dominant. Conpiracy theorists want everything wrapped up with a little bow."

I agree. Things are not that easily organized, the world is too chaotic. Besides, if they were smart enough to do that, they'd also be smart enough to know it's a stupid way to be.

[sabotabby]

It's the discovery of that sort of thing that makes me doubt any conspiracy theory. Someone eventually talks, and these folks aren't particularly subtle about their plans.

[sabotabby]

Your last point is, to me, the biggest issue. It's disempowering—what happens when the truth gets beamed out, anyway?

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

what do you mean? Evil is vanquished. it simply gives up and takes its punishment like a man.

[terry-terrible.livejournal.com]

It never happened! The WTC is still there, all of the ground zero rubble was just a super-duper high tech hologram and the "vitcims" were kidnapped by aliens like in Close encounters of the third kind.


But seriously, conspiracy theories like this thrive becuase it's more easy to explain away horrible events or systems of opression through "puppet master" thoeries instead of facing the complex and dynamic intitutions and power systems that really control the world.

Also, these theories provide comfort to people beucase it's more comforting that even "bad" people ae in control, atleast someone "is" in control instead of the harsh reality that bad shit sometimes just happens for no reason.

Even though Bush and this cadre is pretty crazy, they're not dumb enough to take a risk of people finding a plot to thier own countrymen to take more power than they have, the risks outwiegh the benfits.

Also, Al Qaeda has more enough motives and the mean carry out an attack like that.

[terry-terrible.livejournal.com]

Osama first denied he was invovled (probley to try and stop an invasion of Afgahnistan), but I think a tape came out the spring 2002 were he boasted about doing it.

[nom-de-grr.livejournal.com]

1) I like your Jabbar Gibson icon. I wrote a couple of good journal entries about the Gibson media coverage here and here.

2) Is Holocaust denial actually rampant in the anarchist community?

3) I have mixed feeling about 9-11 conspiracy theories. On the one hand, Bush & Co certainly did take, and continue to take full advantage of the attacks in a very post-Reichstag Fire sort of way. I do not believe they would have been capable of selling a great number of their policies without it. Does this imply that they were responsible for the attacks? Not necessarily, but it does imply a potential motive.

Also, I personally know a person who was involved in the 9-11 investigation and was privy to some inside information. She is subject to a gag order, but she is also a huge blabbermouth. In any case, she described to me some of the things she saw as part of the investigation, and she says that what she learned absolutely convinced her that the attacks were, in part at least, an inside job. Do I believe her, or rather do I believe her interpretation? ehhhh... well, I definitely don't think she's a nut or a liar, but while she may have had access to certain interesting bits of info that the rest of us don't, I kind of doubt that what she saw forms a complete picture of the attacks. Still, what she told me unsteadied what I held to be assumed truths about 9-11.

[feath.livejournal.com]

I have always found it amusing when ObL seems to 'help' Bush's falling popularity by suddenly makeing a tape that threatens the US that he is coming for them.

I've not believed any tapes of ObL since the one that was shown...gosh, how long ago? Dec 01? Dec 02? He was talking to some Arab, and the voices were pretty garbled, and didn't quite match the lips, and WHY were they speaking English? but it clearly showed him making plans on attacking the US. The problem was, we were informed it happened (iirc) in Dec. of what ever year it was, but in fact, HAD to have been done in Nov. For two reasons, 1) he never mentioned the death of a person (who's name I don't remember right now) which he would have done, and 2) there was no food or drink on the table. An Arab not offer hospitality? laughable. The ONLY time there wouldn't be food and drink layed out is during Ramadan. 4-6 weeks BEFORE it was stated the tape was made and 4-6 weeks BEFORE the death of the person.

Every muslim in the world laughed at that tape.

Hanlon's Razor

[rohmie.livejournal.com]

This administration handled 9-11 just like the Gipper's handled the repeated Beirut truck bombings.

From Paul Slansky’s book The Clothes Have No Emperor, Pages 110 and 111 (Fireside, NY, 1989):

9/26/84 - President Reagan claims the latest Beirut bombing is the fault of Jimmy Carter, who he said "presided over the destruction of our intelligence capability." Carter responds that Reagan tends "to blame his every mistake and failure on me and others who served before him."

10/3/84 - A House Intelligence Committee report finds "no logical explanation" for the lapse in security at the embassy in Beirut, since State Department and embassy officials had plenty of reason to suspect that a bombing attempt was not only possible but probable.

10/5/84 - "I don't think he's read the report in detail. It's five and a half pages, double-spaced." - Larry Speakes responding to the question of whether President Reagan has read the House report on the latest Beirut truck bombing.

[terry-terrible.livejournal.com]

I can't recall the specific tapes your refering to, but though what you say makes sense I won't comment on it due to my ignorance on the subject.

[terry-terrible.livejournal.com]

1. I love your icon, is it form the "communist party" t-shirt?

2. Everybody nkows that it was the mossad did it, thier responsible for everything bad! lol.

[springheel-jack.livejournal.com]

I've never made up my mind about "Al-Qaeda did it, and the Bush administration knowingly did nothing to prevent it."