Alien mind-rays and such

[sabotabby]

There has been another round of conspiracy theorizing over at anarchists. It seems like one of the most popular conspiracy theories these days (after "Jews faked the Holocaust!") is that the official story about 9-11 is...well, somewhat lacking. The Left, for obvious reasons, seems to be more willing to entertain such theories than the Right, and I am genuinely interested in knowing who among you believes what.

When it comes to conspiracy theories, and in particular to the Bush administration, I tend to go with Hanlon's Razor, "Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity," and its corollary, "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice."



[Poll #685162]

On a related note, and this is not snark, I'm not entirely sure what a "disinfo agent" or what a "confusionist" is, although I keep running into the latter online. Are they the same as Discordians? Why do they keep showing up on anarchists?

---

And now, for your Ted Nugent Quote of the Day:

Though modern man has mostly come to depend on technical services and indulgent conveniences, the pulse of the warrior rages on—even downtown. Mother Nature can be a bitch, but we love her madly anyway. That flash of history from caveman to European to pioneer to city dude reveals a powerful force of intellect, courage, reason, and creativity that is alive and well. Leaping into the millennium on the backs of strong, uppity entrepreneurs and timeless Jeremiah Johnsons, the pecking order is accurate and in place. And there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Conform to this truism or perish. You get what you deserve.

Comments

[xol0tl.livejournal.com]

I think the 911 conspiracy theory stuff is our generation's version of the stories about a faked lunar landing by NASA.

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

perfect analogy!

[xol0tl.livejournal.com]

BTW, you should make a desktop calendar out of those Ted Nugent quotes. Course, that might involve paying the Motor City Madman royalties of some sort, but whatever...

[sabotabby]

I think the 911 conspiracy theory stuff is our generation's version of the stories about a faked lunar landing by NASA.

I wonder how widespread that belief is/was.

BTW, you should make a desktop calendar out of those Ted Nugent quotes. Course, that might involve paying the Motor City Madman royalties of some sort, but whatever...

I could illustrate them! Do you think anyone would want that?

[feath.livejournal.com]

One of the things ObL said, right after the twin towers, was "I did not do it." Now, if he actually told the truth (what terrorist WOULDN'T say 'yes, yes! we did it! nanner nanner!') it leaves an interesting question, just who did?

As we know now, the Bush admin is into spin. What comes out of the white house has no bases in reality, only what it want's us to believe. It wanted us to belive ObL and A-Q did it. Of everything and everyone I've heard, I sadly believe ObL's word, more than Bushes.

[earthlingmike.livejournal.com]

I agree with the idea that Bush is into spin. So are 99% of the rest of American politicians. I think it is important to always keep in mind that Bush was obviously determined to go to war in Iraq no matter how absurd or how much spin was required.

[terry-terrible.livejournal.com]

Osama first denied he was invovled (probley to try and stop an invasion of Afgahnistan), but I think a tape came out the spring 2002 were he boasted about doing it.

[earthlingmike.livejournal.com]

I heard all of those theories a few years ago. People also attempted to warn Bush that the levee might break when Katrina was aiming for New Orleans and he claimed he didn't know. I think I'm leaning towards thinking Bush knew of the attacks and purposely did nothing, that is the extent of my conspiracy theory views regarding that.

[sabotabby]

I'd never rule out lying after the fact—that happens all the time. But that's not a conspiracy; that's just covering one's arse.

[flummoxicated.livejournal.com]

I think that BushCo has taken advantage of the hysteria caused by the 9/11 attacks. Especially in light of the recent discovery of notes from a Bush aide after the attack, along the lines of "can we tie this to Iraq?"

[sabotabby]

It's the discovery of that sort of thing that makes me doubt any conspiracy theory. Someone eventually talks, and these folks aren't particularly subtle about their plans.

[gordonzola.livejournal.com]

I hate conspiracy theorists. Like things aren't so bad that we need to make them worse?

First of all, they're stupid. The world is complicated and though certain social forces exist nothing is 100% dominant. Conpiracy theorists want everything wrapped up with a little bow.

Secondly, they are embarrassing. in the same newspaper or conversation covering real issues like the Patriot Act or war, the conspiracy theorist pops up to ruin everyone's credibility. 9/11 nuts are offensive to anarchists.

Third, the real lesson is that the right is ready with contingency plans to destroy us. The Patriot Act: ready to go in time of crisis. there's no conspiracy theory there, the right simply (much due to funding) is better prepared and more organized than us. Maybe the conspiracy is that the conspiracy theorists are on the payroll of the right, to make regular folks even more convinced that the left is a bunch of wingnuts.

Fourth, conspiracy theory leaves no room for resistance. The power of those in power is so strong that they know and anticipate everything. The only hope in these scenarios is that the truth is beamed out to people and suddenly everyone understands that they are oppressed (like in "Serenity") and evil is toppled. Well, it's a great theory to explain why you don't need to spend any time doing real organizing.

[earthlingmike.livejournal.com]

"First of all, they're stupid. The world is complicated and though certain social forces exist nothing is 100% dominant. Conpiracy theorists want everything wrapped up with a little bow."

I agree. Things are not that easily organized, the world is too chaotic. Besides, if they were smart enough to do that, they'd also be smart enough to know it's a stupid way to be.

[terry-terrible.livejournal.com]

It never happened! The WTC is still there, all of the ground zero rubble was just a super-duper high tech hologram and the "vitcims" were kidnapped by aliens like in Close encounters of the third kind.


But seriously, conspiracy theories like this thrive becuase it's more easy to explain away horrible events or systems of opression through "puppet master" thoeries instead of facing the complex and dynamic intitutions and power systems that really control the world.

Also, these theories provide comfort to people beucase it's more comforting that even "bad" people ae in control, atleast someone "is" in control instead of the harsh reality that bad shit sometimes just happens for no reason.

Even though Bush and this cadre is pretty crazy, they're not dumb enough to take a risk of people finding a plot to thier own countrymen to take more power than they have, the risks outwiegh the benfits.

Also, Al Qaeda has more enough motives and the mean carry out an attack like that.

[sabotabby]

I know! It was never there in the first place!

Hanlon's Razor

[rohmie.livejournal.com]

This administration handled 9-11 just like the Gipper's handled the repeated Beirut truck bombings.

From Paul Slansky’s book The Clothes Have No Emperor, Pages 110 and 111 (Fireside, NY, 1989):

9/26/84 - President Reagan claims the latest Beirut bombing is the fault of Jimmy Carter, who he said "presided over the destruction of our intelligence capability." Carter responds that Reagan tends "to blame his every mistake and failure on me and others who served before him."

10/3/84 - A House Intelligence Committee report finds "no logical explanation" for the lapse in security at the embassy in Beirut, since State Department and embassy officials had plenty of reason to suspect that a bombing attempt was not only possible but probable.

10/5/84 - "I don't think he's read the report in detail. It's five and a half pages, double-spaced." - Larry Speakes responding to the question of whether President Reagan has read the House report on the latest Beirut truck bombing.

Re: Hanlon's Razor

[sabotabby]

"I don't think he's read the report in detail. It's five and a half pages, double-spaced."

Bwahahaha.

[springheel-jack.livejournal.com]

I've never made up my mind about "Al-Qaeda did it, and the Bush administration knowingly did nothing to prevent it."

[sabotabby]

That's usually the extent to which I'll buy that it could be a conspiracy. I can't see them actively doing something, but passively? Maybe. I'd still need more proof, though.

[human-loser.livejournal.com]

Someone set up us the bomb!

This is the part where you are awesome!

[sabotabby]

[bike4fish.livejournal.com]

I find the Reichstag fire an interesting analogy. It doesn't matter if Marinus Vander Lubbe did it all by himself, was encouraged by Nazis to do it, was assisted by Nazis doing it, or was innocent and blamed for it - the Nazis used it as an excuse to convince the German people that they needed dictatorial powers to protect the country.

While not much of a conspiracy fan, I do believe that the capture or killing of Osama bin Ladin would do much to help the political direction of the present US administation, unless another big terrorist attack happens shortly thereafter. Whether this is actually influencing efforts to locate the guy would be speculation.

[sabotabby]

I'm prone to snark about finding bin Laden. He does have a habit of turning up when the polls start to slip.

[rohmie.livejournal.com]

I do wonder why Michael Moore never jumped on Gregg Palast's BBC segment claiming the Bush told the FBI to back of their investigations of Bin Laden and the Saudis (really crappy video with decent sound, transcript) Has it since been discredited? If so, why hasn't the BBC offered a retraction and an apology? Do Moore and Palast have some sort of rivalry going on?

Off Topic

[rohmie.livejournal.com]

From The Onion:

Are Your Cats Old Enough to Learn About Jesus?

... Kittens' hearts, at birth, are filled with what theologians call "original mischief." ... If you give your cat a rubber Jesus to play with, it will sense that there's more to this toy. If you give it a scratching cross, it will contemplate Christ's love and ultimate sacrifice while it stretches and sharpens its claws. I myself have put an image of Jesus at the bottom of my cats' food bowls. That way, when they finish their food, the face of He who provided it is revealed unto them. ...

Re: Off Topic

[sabotabby]

That's just brilliant.

I think my cat is a Satanist.

[rohmie.livejournal.com]

Re: Ted

"to European"!?

The fucker ain't subtle about his racism is he?

Keep the quotes coming, I might be able to use some of this shit in my book. Read it with that in mind. You are my official Nugent researcher now.

[sabotabby]

He likes POC as long as they're not armed.

At some point, I'll have to transcribe that entire bit I told you about, where he gleefully fantasies about killing two guys. I think it's the perfect description of his mindset.

[earthlingmike.livejournal.com]

This is a very thought provoking entry.

I heard 2 or 3 theories about how the last U.S. election was rigged, none of them sounded convincing to me. I don't have much trouble believing that plenty of people voted for Bush anyway. It's not a pleasant thing to believe, but that doesn't change the statistics.

[sabotabby]

I've met a lot of dumb people. I can buy that the first one was rigged, but not so much the second.

[rackletang.livejournal.com]

I'm not going to read the comments on this one, just going to inject a personal note. I was a corporate travel agent in September 2001, and I put a client on the plane that hit the Pentagon. She was real, the plane I put her on was real, the eyewitnesses I am acquainted with are real, the flight manifests that I saw were accurate, and her orphaned son is sure as hell real.

Sore subject.

I only clicked one box, because honestly, some stuff (like the whole "was Osama on the CIA payroll?" thing) is plausible but unproven to my satisfaction.

[sabotabby]

Ouch. I'm really sorry.

[neoplasm.livejournal.com]

The powers that be laugh when we quibble.

[sabotabby]

Yeah, but I think it's important to be critical.

[caprinus.livejournal.com]

Disinfo agent/confusionist -- I'm guessing means plants on government payroll whose role is to reduce knowledge exchange to cyclical flamewars and other stupid shit any time anyone gets too close to any uncomfortable truth? A lot of trolls could be explained by being paid discussion saboteurs, but I fear most of them are volunteers :)

[sabotabby]

If that's the case, I really would like to get paid for it. I'm quite good at it, and that way, I could quit my day job.

[pretzelsalt.livejournal.com]

Have you seen "911 in plane site"?

It's an interesting debunk of the information we were given. It doesn't claim to say what happened - it just proves what did not.

[sabotabby]

Hmm, never even heard of that one.