Alien mind-rays and such
Mar. 5th, 2006 12:36 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
There has been another round of conspiracy theorizing over at
anarchists. It seems like one of the most popular conspiracy theories these days (after "Jews faked the Holocaust!") is that the official story about 9-11 is...well, somewhat lacking. The Left, for obvious reasons, seems to be more willing to entertain such theories than the Right, and I am genuinely interested in knowing who among you believes what.
When it comes to conspiracy theories, and in particular to the Bush administration, I tend to go with Hanlon's Razor, "Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity," and its corollary, "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice."
[Poll #685162]
On a related note, and this is not snark, I'm not entirely sure what a "disinfo agent" or what a "confusionist" is, although I keep running into the latter online. Are they the same as Discordians? Why do they keep showing up on
anarchists?
And now, for your Ted Nugent Quote of the Day:
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
When it comes to conspiracy theories, and in particular to the Bush administration, I tend to go with Hanlon's Razor, "Never attribute to malice what can adequately be explained by stupidity," and its corollary, "Any sufficiently advanced stupidity is indistinguishable from malice."
[Poll #685162]
On a related note, and this is not snark, I'm not entirely sure what a "disinfo agent" or what a "confusionist" is, although I keep running into the latter online. Are they the same as Discordians? Why do they keep showing up on
![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-community.gif)
And now, for your Ted Nugent Quote of the Day:
Though modern man has mostly come to depend on technical services and indulgent conveniences, the pulse of the warrior rages on—even downtown. Mother Nature can be a bitch, but we love her madly anyway. That flash of history from caveman to European to pioneer to city dude reveals a powerful force of intellect, courage, reason, and creativity that is alive and well. Leaping into the millennium on the backs of strong, uppity entrepreneurs and timeless Jeremiah Johnsons, the pecking order is accurate and in place. And there's not a damn thing you can do about it. Conform to this truism or perish. You get what you deserve.
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Date: 2006-03-05 05:53 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2006-03-05 06:00 pm (UTC)I wonder how widespread that belief is/was.
BTW, you should make a desktop calendar out of those Ted Nugent quotes. Course, that might involve paying the Motor City Madman royalties of some sort, but whatever...
I could illustrate them! Do you think anyone would want that?
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Date: 2006-03-05 06:02 pm (UTC)As we know now, the Bush admin is into spin. What comes out of the white house has no bases in reality, only what it want's us to believe. It wanted us to belive ObL and A-Q did it. Of everything and everyone I've heard, I sadly believe ObL's word, more than Bushes.
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Date: 2006-03-05 06:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-05 06:17 pm (UTC)The only thing is, he didn't need a big event to do that, or anything else.
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Date: 2006-03-05 07:46 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-05 08:05 pm (UTC)I've not believed any tapes of ObL since the one that was shown...gosh, how long ago? Dec 01? Dec 02? He was talking to some Arab, and the voices were pretty garbled, and didn't quite match the lips, and WHY were they speaking English? but it clearly showed him making plans on attacking the US. The problem was, we were informed it happened (iirc) in Dec. of what ever year it was, but in fact, HAD to have been done in Nov. For two reasons, 1) he never mentioned the death of a person (who's name I don't remember right now) which he would have done, and 2) there was no food or drink on the table. An Arab not offer hospitality? laughable. The ONLY time there wouldn't be food and drink layed out is during Ramadan. 4-6 weeks BEFORE it was stated the tape was made and 4-6 weeks BEFORE the death of the person.
Every muslim in the world laughed at that tape.
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Date: 2006-03-06 03:11 am (UTC)Now that I think about it, I'm thinking it would be possible to come up with a theory that being encouraged by success wih 9/11, Bush had this idea:
allow a catastrophe to happen in New Orleans as well, and then make the government look good when the government cleans up the mess and saves the day.
And then you could say that his plans simply completely backfired.
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Date: 2006-03-05 06:12 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2006-03-05 08:00 pm (UTC)2) Is Holocaust denial actually rampant in the anarchist community?
3) I have mixed feeling about 9-11 conspiracy theories. On the one hand, Bush & Co certainly did take, and continue to take full advantage of the attacks in a very post-Reichstag Fire sort of way. I do not believe they would have been capable of selling a great number of their policies without it. Does this imply that they were responsible for the attacks? Not necessarily, but it does imply a potential motive.
Also, I personally know a person who was involved in the 9-11 investigation and was privy to some inside information. She is subject to a gag order, but she is also a huge blabbermouth. In any case, she described to me some of the things she saw as part of the investigation, and she says that what she learned absolutely convinced her that the attacks were, in part at least, an inside job. Do I believe her, or rather do I believe her interpretation? ehhhh... well, I definitely don't think she's a nut or a liar, but while she may have had access to certain interesting bits of info that the rest of us don't, I kind of doubt that what she saw forms a complete picture of the attacks. Still, what she told me unsteadied what I held to be assumed truths about 9-11.
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Date: 2006-03-05 09:19 pm (UTC)2. Everybody nkows that it was the mossad did it, thier responsible for everything bad! lol.
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Date: 2006-03-05 10:23 pm (UTC)Of course.
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Date: 2006-03-06 04:02 am (UTC)2)
3) I have a similar issue with a journalist friend of mine. He is rather smart, and often privy to information that other people don't have. Occasionally he will say something that seems a bit nuts at the time and it'll be proven conclusively later. He is pretty convinced that it was an inside job. I'm still not sure that they're even competent enough to pull off something like that.
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Date: 2006-03-06 04:32 am (UTC)"They" meaning the Bush administration? Policy makers don't have to be competent. Only the people carrying out and enforcing the policy must be. I have no doubt that there are a great many individuals and groups in our military/intelligence community with the expertise and competence to carry out such an operation. None of this is necessarily indicative of some sort of shadowy conspiracy planned and carried out by God knows whom, but I wouldn't rule it out based on speculations of competency.
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Date: 2006-03-06 02:47 pm (UTC)I get your second point
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Date: 2006-03-06 03:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-06 05:13 am (UTC)Similarly the PNAC blueprint of September 2000 states that the process of transforming the US into "tomorrow's dominant force" is likely to be a long one in the absence of "some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor".
- The Guardian, Saturday September 6th, 2003
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Date: 2006-03-05 06:14 pm (UTC)First of all, they're stupid. The world is complicated and though certain social forces exist nothing is 100% dominant. Conpiracy theorists want everything wrapped up with a little bow.
Secondly, they are embarrassing. in the same newspaper or conversation covering real issues like the Patriot Act or war, the conspiracy theorist pops up to ruin everyone's credibility. 9/11 nuts are offensive to anarchists.
Third, the real lesson is that the right is ready with contingency plans to destroy us. The Patriot Act: ready to go in time of crisis. there's no conspiracy theory there, the right simply (much due to funding) is better prepared and more organized than us. Maybe the conspiracy is that the conspiracy theorists are on the payroll of the right, to make regular folks even more convinced that the left is a bunch of wingnuts.
Fourth, conspiracy theory leaves no room for resistance. The power of those in power is so strong that they know and anticipate everything. The only hope in these scenarios is that the truth is beamed out to people and suddenly everyone understands that they are oppressed (like in "Serenity") and evil is toppled. Well, it's a great theory to explain why you don't need to spend any time doing real organizing.
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Date: 2006-03-05 06:18 pm (UTC)I agree. Things are not that easily organized, the world is too chaotic. Besides, if they were smart enough to do that, they'd also be smart enough to know it's a stupid way to be.
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Date: 2006-03-05 09:41 pm (UTC)The ship gets repaired, but omgwashisDEAD!!!one!1!!!cry!!!!!1
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Date: 2006-03-05 11:27 pm (UTC)no subject
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Date: 2006-03-05 11:30 pm (UTC)Yep, it's very simplistic thinking. It's also the sort of thinking of someone who want's there to be some omniscient omnipotent power in control of the world.
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Date: 2006-03-05 07:44 pm (UTC)But seriously, conspiracy theories like this thrive becuase it's more easy to explain away horrible events or systems of opression through "puppet master" thoeries instead of facing the complex and dynamic intitutions and power systems that really control the world.
Also, these theories provide comfort to people beucase it's more comforting that even "bad" people ae in control, atleast someone "is" in control instead of the harsh reality that bad shit sometimes just happens for no reason.
Even though Bush and this cadre is pretty crazy, they're not dumb enough to take a risk of people finding a plot to thier own countrymen to take more power than they have, the risks outwiegh the benfits.
Also, Al Qaeda has more enough motives and the mean carry out an attack like that.
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Date: 2006-03-06 04:03 am (UTC)Hanlon's Razor
Date: 2006-03-05 08:07 pm (UTC)From Paul Slansky’s book The Clothes Have No Emperor, Pages 110 and 111 (Fireside, NY, 1989):
9/26/84 - President Reagan claims the latest Beirut bombing is the fault of Jimmy Carter, who he said "presided over the destruction of our intelligence capability." Carter responds that Reagan tends "to blame his every mistake and failure on me and others who served before him."
10/3/84 - A House Intelligence Committee report finds "no logical explanation" for the lapse in security at the embassy in Beirut, since State Department and embassy officials had plenty of reason to suspect that a bombing attempt was not only possible but probable.
10/5/84 - "I don't think he's read the report in detail. It's five and a half pages, double-spaced." - Larry Speakes responding to the question of whether President Reagan has read the House report on the latest Beirut truck bombing.
Re: Hanlon's Razor
Date: 2006-03-06 04:04 am (UTC)Bwahahaha.
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Date: 2006-03-05 09:31 pm (UTC)This is the part where you are awesome!
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Date: 2006-03-06 12:31 am (UTC)While not much of a conspiracy fan, I do believe that the capture or killing of Osama bin Ladin would do much to help the political direction of the present US administation, unless another big terrorist attack happens shortly thereafter. Whether this is actually influencing efforts to locate the guy would be speculation.
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Date: 2006-03-06 04:08 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-06 03:15 am (UTC)Off Topic
Date: 2006-03-06 03:43 am (UTC)Are Your Cats Old Enough to Learn About Jesus?
... Kittens' hearts, at birth, are filled with what theologians call "original mischief." ... If you give your cat a rubber Jesus to play with, it will sense that there's more to this toy. If you give it a scratching cross, it will contemplate Christ's love and ultimate sacrifice while it stretches and sharpens its claws. I myself have put an image of Jesus at the bottom of my cats' food bowls. That way, when they finish their food, the face of He who provided it is revealed unto them. ...
Re: Off Topic
Date: 2006-03-06 04:09 am (UTC)I think my cat is a Satanist.
Re: Off Topic
Date: 2006-03-06 04:42 am (UTC)Re: Off Topic
Date: 2006-03-06 02:48 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-06 03:56 am (UTC)"to European"!?
The fucker ain't subtle about his racism is he?
Keep the quotes coming, I might be able to use some of this shit in my book. Read it with that in mind. You are my official Nugent researcher now.
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Date: 2006-03-06 04:10 am (UTC)At some point, I'll have to transcribe that entire bit I told you about, where he gleefully fantasies about killing two guys. I think it's the perfect description of his mindset.
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Date: 2006-03-06 03:43 pm (UTC)He's fucking pitiful.
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Date: 2006-03-06 04:57 am (UTC)I heard 2 or 3 theories about how the last U.S. election was rigged, none of them sounded convincing to me. I don't have much trouble believing that plenty of people voted for Bush anyway. It's not a pleasant thing to believe, but that doesn't change the statistics.
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Date: 2006-03-06 02:49 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-06 08:06 am (UTC)Sore subject.
I only clicked one box, because honestly, some stuff (like the whole "was Osama on the CIA payroll?" thing) is plausible but unproven to my satisfaction.
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Date: 2006-03-06 02:51 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-07 02:32 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-03-06 03:25 pm (UTC)It may be a sore subject for you, but I have never seen pics of a plane crash that didn't show parts of the airplane.
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Date: 2006-03-07 02:38 am (UTC)You enjoy your theories, I'll just continue to live with my guilt and pain. Thanks for attempting to debate me on something when I've already indicated my discomfort with the discussion, though. You're a peach. Really.
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Date: 2006-03-06 09:21 pm (UTC)What we need is clearly a Confusionist Union!
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Date: 2006-03-06 08:35 pm (UTC)It's an interesting debunk of the information we were given. It doesn't claim to say what happened - it just proves what did not.
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Date: 2006-03-06 09:34 pm (UTC)Prove may be a problematic term - but an intact roof line on the pentagon is also problematic and proven by news footage.
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