podcast friday

[sabotabby]

 Hmm, let's see. I really liked Conspirituality's "Dems Ask: What Is a Man?" episode. In general they've been doing a lot of coverage of Masculinity Crisis stuff lately and this episode, which focuses on quite pathetic attempts from the less-right wing of the American Party to re-capture the young male vote, via...studies and focus groups.

Well, fuck.

You can look to the wonderful example of New York to see a good counter-example of how to do it right, though this episode dropped before Zohran Mamdani's inspiring victory. If I were a more conspiratorial thinker, I'd say that the less-right wing of the American Party loses on purpose, and you need look no farther than their attempts to sabotage Mamdani's campaign for evidence. At any rate, the analysis in this episode lines up with what actually happened—we don't need a Joe Rogan of the left, we need people who can speak to frustrations and channel popular anger, not just for young men but for all genders.

Comments

[minoanmiss]

I admit to bitterness fueling this question, but what *are* the frustrations of young men beyond 1) stuff that affects most young people such as the massive difficulty of getting a job and 2) it becoming (at least until recent backlashes) somewhat socially depricated to harass and abuse women? I still haven't gotten over "your body my choice" becoming the mantra of teen and twentysomething men across my country, or how many fewer young men think abortion should be legal than young women do.

Oh, and 3) not getting drafted into some stupid war, but *waves at recent events* the idea that voting for Republicans is voting *against* stupid wars is... counterfactual.

What do the guys think they want that Democrats can offer them? When Republicans can offer them the continued degradation of women both socially and increasingly legally, which does seem to have appealed to them in the 2024 election.

[sabotabby]

I'm pretty bitter at a fundamental level when you look at how women have been held back in every field, and then when women are held back a little less, we tend to outperform men (and obviously this goes extra for, say, BIPOC women). And then suddenly it's a crisis. It's not a crisis when more men go to university than women, it's a crisis when more women go to university than men. Why is this? Suddenly the school system isn't working, even though in general more people are going to university because university is now about credentialing and you need it to get an entry level job, and again, whose fault is that?

At the root of a lot of masculinity crisis stuff is offshoring, wherein traditionally masculine jobs that paid well have been automated or outsourced by corporations in search of cheaper labour. The workforce in general is more feminized because it's harder to automate, say, low-paying child care or elder care work (not that they're not trying). So...men can't be breadwinners. Ignoring the fact that women can't be breadwinners either. No one is winning bread except billionaires. And the sooner the Democrats acknowledge that reality and their part in it, the better.

[minoanmiss]

And the sooner the Democrats acknowledge that reality and their part in it, the better.

Word. *sigh*

[springheel_jack]

the Dems are a corrupt, sclerotic machine party whose ruling gerontocracy is perfectly happy not to have executive power. we. need a combination of more victories by people with at least some principles and the deaths of the gerontocrats themselves, which is inevitable if excessively deferred.

[sabotabby]

Well, with the surge of far-right terrorism lately, maybe not even excessively deferred.

[springheel_jack]

I just need them to go away, however it happens.

[greylock]

Conspirituality's "Dems Ask: What Is a Man?"

I mean it's a good question. Let us ask the Liver King....
:P
(If you don't know TLK, bless! He's the MANLIEST MAN ON EARTH. Like Mr T, He'll EAT YOUR BALLS for real).


not just for young men but for all genders.

As a not young man, and not a particularly manly man (I think all but my underwear was sold as women's clothing, not that it needed to be, it just was) even when I were a boy there was a vibe that men were being sidelined by "Women's Lib". I'd love to do a deep dive into that because I am curious WHERE I picked up those ideas (It was TV).

You do need to talk to young men and direct them away from Terrorgram et al.

we need people who can speak to frustrations and channel popular anger

I've seen about five minutes of him speak. I can only formulate an option based on policy.
But I have probably seen 25 minutes of Adams. That guy is on some drugs. Who voted for him? Did he have policies that were not rat-related?

[sabotabby]

I do know the Liver King, unfortunately.

My solution remains that we need to fix the economy so that there are the two conditions necessary for young men to join post-punk bands: a social safety net that allows them to get fired from jobs frequently and still afford electric guitars, and a housing policy that gives them access to garages.

[greylock]

The Liver King makes me skin crawl. It's a deep, deep seated, physical revulsion.

Best we can do is conscription for Forever Wars, and squats.

[springheel_jack]

You probably saw that research that shows that when occupations and spaces pass about a 5:4 (I think it was) ratio of women to men, men start to abandon it in increasing numbers, and that area goes into a male-participation death spiral.

That may now be happening in the US to undergraduate education. There may not be any further, independent cause for declining male enrollment, other than the presence of women.

(Doesn't stop the men being catered-to. Fields like librarianship are female dominated but the positions of executive power are still, STILL, disproportionately held by men.)

[sabotabby]

Yup, I've seen that, and it jives with my own feeling that the masculinity crisis is largely mediocre men no longer being propped up.