On the one hand, I don't think there's any basis for saying that criticizing the actions of a particular country's government is somehow hate speech - making that equation actually sets a really dangerous precedent, because if criticizing the Israeli government's actions can be equated to hate speech, couldn't the same be said for criticizing any government? Is criticizing US foreign policy hate speech against Americans? Ultimately that logic seems to be pointing in the direction of criminalizing almost any form of dissent, and that's kind of scary.
On the other - I've encountered a fair number of leftist/pro-Palestinian activists who are of the opinion that Israel shouldn't exist, period - that the whole area currently called Israel should be given back to the Palestinians. Some of them are very up front with that view, some of them tend to dance around it in the interests of not alienating people, but will admit that's what they think if pressed, and some of them won't exactly say it, but will support organizations that do. And I do think that there's a big difference between saying "$country should stop doing $thing", and saying "$country should not be allowed to exist". The latter statement leans perilously close to saying "$people should not be allowed to exist", even though a lot of the people taking that stand will argue that it's not quite the same. But it seems to me like a bit of a slippery slope - and something that perhaps is skating perilously close to hate speech.
Now, that said, I am not all that familiar with QuAIA. I don't remember seeing them at past Prides, and so I really don't know if they keep their statements solidly on the "Israel should stop doing bad things" side or occasionally veer toward the "Israel shouldn't exist" side. If it's the former, I'm far more inclined to be supportive, though it may be that part of the reason for many people's negative reaction to them is too many encounters with pro-Palestinians of the latter sort. If they do edge toward the latter, then I'm afraid they've lost my sympathy. I've walked out of demos where the rhetoric took a turn in that direction, because it wasn't something I wanted to be part of.
I've heard people earnestly argue that really, saying that Israel shouldn't exist technically isn't anti-Semitism, that it doesn't mean you want everyone that currently lives there killed or anything like that, but it still feels chillingly close to the kind of thing a lot of white supremacists say about immigrants. It really does feel hateful to me - and I'm not even Jewish. So on a certain level I can sympathize with some of the Jews who've said that having groups like QuAIA at Pride makes them feel unsafe - I mean, they've got a certain history of being told they shouldn't exist, you know? Now, it may be that QuAIA are taking a more moderate stand and it's just guilt by association, I don't know - I guess I'm just saying that I can see why this is an awkward and difficult issue for a lot of people.
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Date: 2010-04-24 06:46 pm (UTC)On the one hand, I don't think there's any basis for saying that criticizing the actions of a particular country's government is somehow hate speech - making that equation actually sets a really dangerous precedent, because if criticizing the Israeli government's actions can be equated to hate speech, couldn't the same be said for criticizing any government? Is criticizing US foreign policy hate speech against Americans? Ultimately that logic seems to be pointing in the direction of criminalizing almost any form of dissent, and that's kind of scary.
On the other - I've encountered a fair number of leftist/pro-Palestinian activists who are of the opinion that Israel shouldn't exist, period - that the whole area currently called Israel should be given back to the Palestinians. Some of them are very up front with that view, some of them tend to dance around it in the interests of not alienating people, but will admit that's what they think if pressed, and some of them won't exactly say it, but will support organizations that do. And I do think that there's a big difference between saying "$country should stop doing $thing", and saying "$country should not be allowed to exist". The latter statement leans perilously close to saying "$people should not be allowed to exist", even though a lot of the people taking that stand will argue that it's not quite the same. But it seems to me like a bit of a slippery slope - and something that perhaps is skating perilously close to hate speech.
Now, that said, I am not all that familiar with QuAIA. I don't remember seeing them at past Prides, and so I really don't know if they keep their statements solidly on the "Israel should stop doing bad things" side or occasionally veer toward the "Israel shouldn't exist" side. If it's the former, I'm far more inclined to be supportive, though it may be that part of the reason for many people's negative reaction to them is too many encounters with pro-Palestinians of the latter sort. If they do edge toward the latter, then I'm afraid they've lost my sympathy. I've walked out of demos where the rhetoric took a turn in that direction, because it wasn't something I wanted to be part of.
I've heard people earnestly argue that really, saying that Israel shouldn't exist technically isn't anti-Semitism, that it doesn't mean you want everyone that currently lives there killed or anything like that, but it still feels chillingly close to the kind of thing a lot of white supremacists say about immigrants. It really does feel hateful to me - and I'm not even Jewish. So on a certain level I can sympathize with some of the Jews who've said that having groups like QuAIA at Pride makes them feel unsafe - I mean, they've got a certain history of being told they shouldn't exist, you know? Now, it may be that QuAIA are taking a more moderate stand and it's just guilt by association, I don't know - I guess I'm just saying that I can see why this is an awkward and difficult issue for a lot of people.