Terminology

[sabotabby]

Do we have to call it the "kyriarchy"?

You discuss, I'll list my objections when I get home now that I've been amused by the discussion.

Most of my objections have actually already been raised. In no particular order, here's why the term makes me grind my teeth:

It's redundant. I suppose that's kind of the point, but still. It makes me hum "Kyrie Eleison" involuntarily. It's a needlessly academic and obscure term, even more so than "patriarchy" or "intersectionality."

It highlights the commonalities of various hegemonies and obscures the contradictions. And yes, there are contradictions. Working class men read the Sun, which advances the economic interests of the ruling class, because of their gender and cultural privilege. Entire communities vote along ethnic lines. Sometimes hierarchies reinforce each other, sometimes they don't.

Vagueness never helps in political discussion. We ought to be specifically naming the problems wherever possible.

Just like "the patriarchy," in the minds of those new to feminist theory, can conjure up an image of a few guys in charge (again, without complications of race, class, gender identity, sexuality, or the fact that much of the dirty work involved in enforcing patriarchal norms comes from women), "kyriarchy," to me, implies one group of (white, cisgendered, heterosexual, wealthy) men at the top. While this demographic profile does fit those at the top to some degree, it's imperfect, and sloppy political analysis. It also suggests that cutting off the head of the pyramid would solve the structural problems found in the rest. Like the top guy is planning everything out from his secret headquarters on a skull-shaped island, sending out orders for everyone else to do his bidding. This is not a useful theoretical model.

Nor do I think it's a useful concept, really. I like kadath's "intersecting hierarchies of oppression."

Or, to the politically uninitiated, "The Man."

Comments

[lienne.livejournal.com]

Well, it's somewhat redundantly constructed, but it's a really useful word.

[dglenn.livejournal.com]

That's pretty much what I was going to say: the implicit redundancy bugs me, but I still find it awfully useful when I want to talk about the meta-'ism/archy/etc.' Kinda waiting for a better word to come along, but suspect 'kyriarchy' has the momentum by now.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

I've never ever used it.
Not online, not irl, not ever.

I've seen it used and have never figured out how it's any more useful than simply naming specific types of oppression and taking intersectionality into account.

[pofflewomp.livejournal.com]

Hooray!!!!!!!!!!!
For once I actually know what you are on about!!!!!!
I am not completely and utterly uneducated and ill-informed after all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(I read about this on the Guardian comment pages.)

I think it is a silly word as Greek words are nice and should not be taken at random but only with due care.

Also it is tautological, surely, well a bit anyway, as kurios means ruler or person in power and arche means rule.

As for using it as a concept, well, I think people should stop bloody well arguing about bollocks and get on with putting the world to rights.

I suppose unfortunately there are enough silly people about who need a word to explain to them that there are always complexities in any situation and that there are intricate power-play relations and blah blah. Well, let them have the word kyriarchy while the rest of us deal in common sense.

Next thing you know, they'll be saying they're not going to campaign for women's rights any more because one legged black trans ewoks have problems too. Aaaargh. You can campaign for all sorts of equality, for ewoks and for women if you like, it doesn't matter! Aaargh! Life of Brian moment. I'm going to have a shower now.

[canonfire.livejournal.com]

I find no tautology. Kurios and archon have different socio-political meanings. I'm curious: how much ancient Greek and ancient Greek politics have you studied?

Well, let them have the word kyriarchy while the rest of us deal in common sense.

I didn't know "common sense" was so elitist and superior! Thank you for clearing that up for me.

[canonfire.livejournal.com]

I think that it should be reserved for discourse in theory related to classics and New Testament studies. The nuances of "kyrios" mean little to those outside those spheres.

[kadath.livejournal.com]

Not that I like the coinage either, but words meaning something in one context has never stopped people from using them for a branching meaning in a different context.

[pofflewomp.livejournal.com]

Not remotely "elitist" then?

[akisawana.livejournal.com]

My niece's name is Kyra, so when you say "kyriarchy," the first thing to pop into my head is a four-year-old girl playing Godzilla.

[monster-grrrl.livejournal.com]

If only the four-year-old girls who play Godzilla were in power in the world. I'd be so much happier.

Oh! I'm so irritated that I don't have a Godzilla icon right now.

[misslynx.livejournal.com]

That visual just improved this whole discussion 100%.

[rojonoir.livejournal.com]

WIN!

[smhwpf.livejournal.com]

I dislike it, as the Kyrie Eleison is one of the most basic prayers in my religion. The word "Kyriarchy" sounds to me like it is equating the rule of Christ with the rule of men, the rich, white people, etc. etc., whereas I would see it as meaning the opposite. I probably won't get much sympathy there though.

What's wrong with "Hierarchy"?

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

I think Hierarchy assumes a single system, while Kyriarchy is supposed to incorporate intersectionality.

That's an interesting point, the religious one that is, it's not something that I consciously thought of, but seeing it now, I can now see it as another reason for my own discomfort with the word.

[chickenfeet2003.livejournal.com]

It strikes me as being so broad in definition as to be practically useless. Is there any system of power relations it can't be applied to? It seems to me that a room full of cats could reasonably be described as a "kyriarchy".

[cdaae.livejournal.com]

This.

[kynn.livejournal.com]

At least it's not a khyriarchy.

[kadath.livejournal.com]

I prefer "intersecting hierarchies of oppression," because one, people who don't hang around talking about it all the time have a much better chance of understanding what you're saying, and two, people who do hang around talking about it all the time I damn well expect to be able to articulate the specifics of their argument better.

re: edit

[kadath.livejournal.com]

Aww, I feel smart.

Upon a bit of consideration while doing household chores, I think "blended hierarchies of oppression" might be better. If sexism is blue paint, and racism is yellow paint, to approximate the experience of a black woman, you have to mix the two, getting green paint. The blue and yellow are both fundamental components of the oppression, but once you've made green, you can't separate them out again. For all it has characteristics of blue and yellow, green is its own thing.

Or you could use a baking analogy. THE COOKIES OF MY OPPRESSION HAVE CHOCOLATE CHIPS.

[poetic-pixie-13.livejournal.com]

It's a useful term/concept to have to have, I just wish it was called something else. More and more I feel like everything is so academic that it's not accessible to a lot of people who are affected by the kyriarchy.

[pofflewomp.livejournal.com]

sigh. I feel this. wah help.

[fengi.livejournal.com]

Every time I see this I think of this:



At least the totalitarian system says "Thank yooo!"

[jackspryte.livejournal.com]

"The Man" is far better isn't it?

[tuff-ghost.livejournal.com]

"the assholes"

[snarkitysnarks.livejournal.com]

I seem to remember you suggested the kyriarchy as a description of something in the comic, but now I can't remember what.

[sabotabby]

I thought it was what the bugs should call themselves. Because it sounds like a sci-fi term, not Proper Political Theory.

It has since become a Thing That People Say (like, in the last few months I've noticed it) and now I'm glad we didn't call them that.

[pofflewomp.livejournal.com]

the article I read was saying it meant whoever happened to be more privileged was more privlileged.
But it was not a very good article.
I would attempt to read your post and understand stuff, but I have a boyfriend suffering from schizophrenia sitting next to me begging me to stop being intellectual as he needs calming down, so I have a really cool excuse for not being intellectual, yey!!!
I have been upset all day about someone on your LJ being mean to me about it and me feeling even more thick than usual, and in the ice cream parlour I told my little brother and his girlfriend, who happens to be only 19 but has an IQ of 168, which seems insane to me, and during the course of my rant I declared, "and while I'm at it, WTF does hegemony mean!!!???" and they looked blank and said, "but but but we're only starting university next week!"

I will, however, read all this later as I do need some education and my brain is stagnating! x x x !

[pofflewomp.livejournal.com]

by the way, according to the article I read, it means, hey, even though I am white, middle class, and have a degree from Cambridge, I am still very near the bum of the social hierarchy because I am a female without blonde hair and am on benefits, so count as a piece of poo in the Tory world-domination plan. So actually maybe I should approve of the term!

[springheel-jack.livejournal.com]

I'm fascinated that there are now academic fads outside academia.

[springheel-jack.livejournal.com]

The only thing that bothers me about it, and that bothers me about most neologisms, is the assumption that it is the first to name what it names, that nobody ever noticed before. Yeah, nobody ever noticed that oppression takes many forms and works on many axes. Now, how about taking on the Hegelian point of the mutual dependence of master and slave? No? Okay.

[marrythebed.livejournal.com]

YES