Protip: No, not everyone is spiritual

[sabotabby]

So Stephen Covey, author of The 7 Habits of Highly Effective People, died today. In a startling coincidence, this was the day everyone in my class had to do their presentations on various habits (they were actually pretty funny because my classmates are cool, but I think the book is bollocks).

One thing that struck me is how often that book, which is ostensibly about leadership and management, segues into religious claptrap. Same with most self-help books, even some of the better ones I've encountered. Of course, they don't call it "religious claptrap." They call it spirituality.*

Everyone, I am told, is spiritual.

No offense to people who are religious, but this one grates. Big time. Especially because "spirituality" outside of the context of New Age nonsense almost always means "Christianity, but we don't want to alienate Jews who might want to buy our book." In this case, there are direct references to "your church" and "reading scriptures," which is pretty specific to one religion that happens to be the dominant one in this part of the world. It's another way that non-Christians and non-theists are erased: "Oh, 'church' could mean 'synagogue' or 'mosque' too! Oh? You don't go to either of those? Well, walk through Nature-with-a-capital-N to renew your spirit. Everyone is spiritual."

Nope. I'm not. I'm completely grounded in the material world. I don't believe in a God, or gods, or fairies in the garden, and haven't since I was a wee child. That's cool if you do, but your assumption that my experience is just an exotic variation of your own is annoying as all fuck. I've never had any sort of religious experience, and it's pretty hard for me to comprehend how people can have religious experiences; I imagine the reverse is just as alien.

I've often been told–and it's generally meant as a compliment—"sabotabby isn't religious, but she's one of the most spiritual people I've ever met." Which, yes, is also pretty offensive, and untrue. It makes me think that people just think that I'm lying when I tell them about my beliefs. I think maybe they mean "ethical," maybe, but again, the conflation of ethics with belief in the supernatural is problematic. I do the stuff that I do because I believe that there's no afterlife, no judgment, no punishment, and no reward. Because the here and now is all that matters. To suggest that I'm an activist because subconsciously I'm doing what someone's God wants me to do is to negate my agency as a human being.

To be told that my spiritual wellbeing is an essential part of my fulfillment as a person is to tell me that I'll never be fulfilled as a human being. Fullstop. That's okay, I guess. I might be happier if I were religious, but then, I'd also be happier if I were a billionaire, but we live with our limitations. The problem is I don't think it's actually true. I suspect that religious people live with the same kind of gnawing doubts and empty spaces as atheists do, get just as terrified when their relatives die or when their bodies fail, are just as awful when they get into positions of power and responsibility, and so on. It would be like me suggesting that everyone should be politically involved; that if you're not out on the streets marching with signs, you're neglecting a vital part of your personhood. It's something that I'm into, a lot, but I don't think you're lying to yourself if you're not into it. You probably find it as boring as I find Nature-with-a-capital-N.

So that's my rant for the day. If you should happen to find the phrase, "everyone is spiritual in their own way" bubbling up in your head, clamp a lid on that baby and I'll be quiet about the opiate-of-the-masses thing.

* It's been awhile since my rant about how I respect religious fundamentalists more than cafeteria New Agers, but I'm sure I don't need to go into it again. Right?

Comments

[eyelid.livejournal.com]

I don't think being religious makes people happier - or unhappier. How happy one is has, I am convinced, very little relationship to one's actual life (outside of extreme circumstances, of course). kinda like weight has little relationship to one's personal discipline. It's genetic above everything.

I tend to ugh about the term "spiritual" because it's too new-agey for me, too. I'm about my old-school religion, replete with grimness and blood and reality and a covenant with G-d, ancient traditions and There Is No Other Hand.

[mendaciloquent.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I really don't get it. I don't really see why we need to appeal to something that is outside-of/other-than-the world in order to find meaning, wonder, beauty, purpose, fulfillment, etc., in the world. It's an inclination I not only don't share but also distrust on a kind of psychological level. Part of me believes, fairly or unfairly, that people who identify as being "spiritual" will also have a propensity to either lie or readily accept lies in the face of uncertainty, fear, and general adversity. In fact, if I mentally replace the word "spiritual" with "I will swallow bullshit if it makes me feel better", that works just fine. I'm sure plenty of "spiritual" people would be just as suspicious of anyone who would dismiss it as categorically as I do, but so be it.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

You're kind of assuming that finding beauty, meaning, etc is the purpose of spirituality. Which might indeed be the case for most flavours of it, I guess. But it doesn't work that way for me.

I identify as religious (I don't know from spiritual, that word strikes me as too milquetoast.) I don't know that I get anything out of it specifically, I just have a bone in my head that insists I need to be in order to feel whole.

I pretty much put it in the same category as people who really feel the need to have children. I don't get it, but then I don't need to, it's not my life.

[dominika-kretek.livejournal.com]

I had an intense spiritual experience that confirmed me as an atheist materialist. Maybe "spiritual" is the wrong word, given that. "Transcendent," maybe? But it matches what religious people call "spiritual experience" at least in terms of affect. Mainly the effect was to give me great peace of mind about my eventual inevitable return to the muck, so I can't say I'm not glad it happened.

And it also removed any doubt in my mind that religious people's transcendent experiences are no evidence for any particular metaphysical reality. Along this line: the psych studies that fed people magic mushrooms and reported that many subjects found the resulting trip to be one of the top three or four most significant experiences of their lives. Of their lives???

Pretty much nobody I've ever heard of has had an experience similar to mine, though. I guess you have to be in a weird state of mind to be comforted by the idea that it all doesn't matter that much. Tired of fighting, that's what I recall feeling.

[mistersmearcase.livejournal.com]

I would like to have a non-religious experience that gave me peace of mind about my eventual return to the muck. Also now I am curious what kind of thing does that, but its absence in the above comment suggests it's not something you toss around casually in comments sections.

[mistersmearcase.livejournal.com]

I think sometimes it's just supposed to suggest an inner life. I dunno. I would never describe myself as spiritual, but the idea of something vaguer (and therefore, likely, less harmful) than religion is ok by me; i.e. I assume someone who identifies as spiritual rather than religious is less likely to want to oppress women, kill gays, etc. than someone with a brand name religion.

[ironed_orchid]

Ah, thanks, that's something I forgot to mention. Some people seem to use it to mean introspection. Or maybe a certain sort of introspection.

Many new agers I know have pretty misogynistic and heterosexist beliefs, it's just that they are differently phrased to standard fundamentalist beliefs, and more likely to invoke something like cosmic harmony or male and female principles etc.

[fengi.livejournal.com]

I suspect spiritual in this contexts means being able to recognize any context greater than oneself. Seeing worth in people and society, thinking of the planet as unified system translates as spiritual.

In this context, it is frustrating people suggest, inadvertently or not, that empathy, big picture thinking and behavior other than pure self-interest requires supernatural intervention.

[misslynx.livejournal.com]

I find this oddly reminiscent of the equally earnest, well-meaning and annoying people who insist that everyone is bisexual. In either case, attempts to argue that no, one really isn't, are met with either smugly well-meaning or earnestly naive assurances that oh yes, you really are, you just obviously haven't figured it out yet/are suppressing it/whatever.

In both cases, I'm perfectly prepared to accept that more people may be spiritual and/or bisexual than is commonly thought, and that much may depend on where you draw the boundaries of the term, but in either case, "more" does not mean "everyone". Really, pretty much any statement beginning with "Everyone is..." should be looked at with extreme skepticism. I mean, unless it ends with "...a carbon-based life form" or something, and even then, that could be subject to change in the future.

And this is coming from someone who is both of the above, albeit only for a fairly loose definition of bisexual (I'm around a Kinsey 5). But I am not everyone, and am not convinced that everyone is secretly like me.

I might be happier if I were religious, but then, I'd also be happier if I were a billionaire, but we live with our limitations. The problem is I don't think it's actually true. I suspect that religious people live with the same kind of gnawing doubts and empty spaces as atheists do, get just as terrified when their relatives die or when their bodies fail, are just as awful when they get into positions of power and responsibility, and so on.

Maybe you'd be happier, maybe you wouldn't. Certainly, I know a lot of religious people, of various stripes, who struggle with depression on a regular basis. And the sort of gnawing doubts you refer to. I think anyone, of any belief system or none, who is not a rabid fundamentalist of some sort, periodically had doubts about whatever they believe or disbelieve - and to a certain extent this is a good thing, precisely because, however uncomfortable it may be, it protects against becoming a rabid fundamentalist. It's considerably harder to justify being a douchebag to everyone who believes differently than you do if you know that whatever you believe may or may not ultimately be true.

Personally, there have been times when my religious beliefs and practices have helped me deal with and overcome depression and anxiety, and there have been times when they haven't, and have even occasionally added fuel to the fire (as, for example, when the depressive downward spiral starts to include stuff like "I'm a crappy excuse for a priestess and the Gods are probably ashamed of me"). On the whole I think it's been far more of a positive influence than a negative one for me, but again, I'm not everyone. Different things work for different people, and we aren't all wired the same way, spiritually or otherwise.

I've never had any sort of religious experience, and it's pretty hard for me to comprehend how people can have religious experiences; I imagine the reverse is just as alien.

Yes. As much as I may accept that not everyone has that sort of experience or perception, there's a certain level on which I don't really understand not having it, and have trouble imagining what it would be like not to. It's been a part of my life for so long. It's kind of like trying to understand what it would be like to be blind or deaf if you've not only always been sighted/hearing, but are also a very visually/aurally oriented person. And I know that's a problematic simile to use, because I don't really intend to suggest that being non-spiritual is a disability - it's just that that's the closest parallel I can think of to having a dimension of experience that has always been there for me and fairly central to my life be gone. But ultimately, I don't have to be able to understand what it would be like to be non-spiritual - I just have to be able to accept, and respect, that many people I care about are, and that that's OK.

[radiumhead.livejournal.com]

You believe in elves

[frilled-shark.livejournal.com]

Agreed, and also would like to add the corollary that not every woman is spiritual and has a deep connection to nature and nurturing and blah blah mother goddess yadda yadda blah. It's something that you see in a lot of new-agey books, but also makes its way into more mainstream feminist writings, usually ones with a rather essentialist slant.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

THIS YES!

[curgoth]

I went from being a flat out atheist to my current "atheist neo-pagan" because religion and ritual seemed liked fun that I felt like I was missing out on. So I made myself some gods, rigged up some spiritual experiences to commune with them and went from there. Sure, my gods aren't real; I made them up. But they work as well for me as anyone else's work for them, so we're all happy.

[g33kboi.livejournal.com]

Hmm. You're ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[http://users.livejournal.com/_ex_cowboy/]

i just had the "if am not of able-enough mind on my deathbed to throw rocks at any priest trying to save my soul, you know i expect you to, right?" conversation with my partner.

dead is dead.

[bcholmes.livejournal.com]

sabotabby isn't religious, but she's one of the most spiritual people I've ever met...

That's... a very strange thing to say. I wonder if they're trying to say something like, "you're very grounded" or "you have a strong sense of ethics/morality/justice/some combination." Which really makes me wonder what their operating definition of spirituality is.

[the_axel]

YMMV naturally, but here's a snippet of Richard Dawkins on secular spirituality:

Dawkins is equally emotional when he talks about the ashes of the planetary scientist Eugene Shoemaker being taken to the Moon in a capsule aboard a space probe. "Shoemaker wanted to be an astronaut, but for reasons of health, he couldn't go. Instead, he spent his life training astronauts and conducting research on the specimens they brought back, and he gave the Shoemaker-Levy comet its name. When he died, people lobbied Nasa to send his ashes to the Moon, which they did, with a plaque [on the capsule] with a quote from Romeo and Juliet: 'And, when he shall die/ Take him and cut him out in little stars/ And he will make the face of heaven so fine/ That all the world will be in love with night/ And pay no worship to the garish sun.'"

It's not quite pagan worship, but "it's a fine example of secular spirituality", says Dawkins.

Obviously 'spirituality' like many words can be twisted, turned and used in a million different ways by a thousand people...

[whichferdinand.livejournal.com]

It's been awhile since my rant about how I respect religious fundamentalists more than cafeteria New Agers, but I'm sure I don't need to go into it again. Right?

Maybe you could outsource the rant to David Mitchell

[mistersmearcase.livejournal.com]

I was curious about that. I have some friends in recovery and it seems to be a big talking point that you could follow the twelve-stepper even as an atheist--that your higher power could be a hat, or a brooch, or a pterodactyl, but meanwhile, you won't mind if we just call it god all the time, right?

[xturtle.livejournal.com]

I think religious people who want to like non-religious people use "spiritual" to mean "has a sense of right and wrong."

To me it means the gooshy feeling of connection I get when I go on a hike or take the canoe out or read a really good book or go to a particularly satisfying exhibit at a museum or make something (so maybe it means fulfillment?). Religious people look at me strangely for this.

I try not to use the word "spiritual" though, because I work in a place that serves as a magnet to new-agey folks, and I'd rather not be mistaken for someone willing to appropriate the cultural practices of some of the most exploited people and places on earth while completely ignoring how this contributes to their exploitation.

[pofflewomp.livejournal.com]

You really cheered me up there because I have been (as usual) lying wake in the early hours worrying that I am either arrogant (er, ok, I am that, so skip that one), stupid, ignorant, undereducated or seriously missing something because I really, really don't get why SO MANY PEOPLE I KNOW are "spiritual" or religious. Does me head in. It's just, well, they rarely explain WHY they believe in an almightly Higher Being or a soulful Absolute or whatever. Or, indeed, in souls. And people often act as if those of us who do NOT believe in them are the ones who should explain our weirdness. I am not into the idea that "it's just a matter of opinion" or that it really doesn't matter, either, as I think it rather important and would like to know whys and wherefores and whether there is much possibility of such things and how people who believe in gods and souls get round the mind-body stuff. But I have had enough philosophy degree already and my brain is tired, so I would like others to explain it for me!

Last night at 2 a.m. I was reading some A.C.Grayling - a history of liberty - to cheer me up and make me feel a bit more sane. I was too tired to take much in, but bits about the struggles against religious oppression and how people like Descartes and Bacon struggled to free science from censorship by making separate worlds of spiritual stuff and of matter, were quite soothing.

A friend was saying atheism had as much history of evil and oppression as the Church (of England, but presumably Catholic one too) recently, which completely confused me as surely that simply is not the case?

My ex used to say it was odd I was so infuriated by his Christianity as I was the "most religious person" he had ever met. Meaning, I think, that I have extreme moral sense and depth and deep belief in rigth and wrong and sense of what should or should not be. I suppose unlike you I do go all soppy-soulful-spiritual about trees and things, but in a non-New-Agey way, and I believe in non-spiritual soulfulness - I use "soul" to mean cluster of what one feels to be one's essence or being.

But yes, pah. I agree with here-and-now being my moral drive, and my "spiritual" side would be the intensity and importance of joy in what is good about life and here and now, rather than escapist dream-world or other-worldliness.

I have had what people would call religious experiences, including sort of out-of-body ones and ecstatic ones and seemingly supernatural ones, but I consider them at length instead of getting carried away and I see them as a wonderful part of how the mind and physiology work and how the connect to ways of thinking and conceptualising and visualising.

[bcholmes.livejournal.com]

It's just, well, they rarely explain WHY they believe in an almightly Higher Being or a soulful Absolute or whatever.

People say the same thing about trans folk. That we never explain WHY we feel the way we feel about gender, and so forth.

[pofflewomp.livejournal.com]

Most Christians I have met, though, are less upset than people who don't believe in an afterlife when loved ones die as they are going to see them again soon in what after all is a time-spell so brief as to be negligible. I get annoyed when the less thoughtful fail to realize how different bereavement can be for someone who hasn't that (sometimes) comfort. I imagine it must be absolutely horrific, though, for people who believe their loved ones have gone to eternal suffering in hell. Worse and different form an atheist's loss. I am very grateful to be spared that belief.

[intangir-heath.livejournal.com]

Businesses care about alienating Jews? What for? There's only like nine of them left...

Truthfully, I'm unsure when it comes to afterlife. The existence of life and consciousness literally make no sense to me. At the same time, it's hard for me to believe that consciousness is just as mechanical as the Moon. It would be funny and scary if spirits were real and robotic.

To make things more ridiculous, I believe literally everything boils down to belief. This has gotten me into many snags, as you might guess. But when I take a good look at any belief system - whether "spiritual", "scientific", or something else, I can reduce everything eventually into "oh, well that. That's just a given." (Or the more usual: "Stop acting stupid.")

[nineteen68.livejournal.com]

I couldn't agree more. "Everyone is spiritual" is a bunch of cow crap.

[firecat]

It's pretty hard for me to comprehend how I could have had religious experiences, even though I have. It wasn't intentional. Because I am an atheist, it was downright embarrassing.

How does it work for you if "capable of love" is substituted for "spiritual"?

[sabotabby]

"Capable of love" is irrelevant. What kind of love? Why does the other person care?

[canonfire.livejournal.com]

I find that the idea of "spiritual, but not religious" is pure ignorant laziness that refuses to do the legwork to really unpack what's said and meant. Yes, it is condescending and completely unhelpful. It just goes to show how idiotic people can be when it comes to categories. They don't know what they're trying to say, so they say "spiritual."

[ironed_orchid]

Feelings are hard.

[lemur-catta.livejournal.com]

I dont 'believe' in the faeries in my garden but, they talk to me and I see them. I don't think that makes me 'spiritual' in any usual sense, just very mildly and enjoyably psychotic.I don't really have a garden but, plants talk to me too, in fact (though literal fact has nothing to do with it), I think maybe the faeries are also the plants...and then there's that hedgehog and all the blue deer...and a mother tiger.
I don't think of any of it as real but I enjoy it being there. I think harmless magical thinking can be a useful tool against problematic fear and negativity as long as it's kept in perspective.
What I dont seem to have is a need for life in general or the events in mine to have any sort of extraphysical meaning or reason behind them. I'm entirely content with it being a random string of accidents that can seem after so much, forming and collapsing and reforming, to have a pattern.

bleeble bleeble dweep *wraps head in aluminium foil to keep the mindsquids out*

[cinematixyz.livejournal.com]

You are NOT alone. One of us is 'questioning', one is an atheist, and the other two are agnostic. We are with ya honey.

Z (and the boys)

[ironed_orchid]

It makes me think that people just think that I'm lying when I tell them about my beliefs. I think maybe they mean "ethical," maybe, but again, the conflation of ethics with belief in the supernatural is problematic.

I love you so much right now.

I have not had or wanted to have anything in my life I would consider spiritual since I was 20, and yet people who do think in those terms often tell me that I do, or worse, that I must.

[sabotabby]

That's going in Maggie: The Movie if I ever make it. People who ask if I believe in God/a higher power/some purpose in the world, and then telling me that I should.