sabotabby: raccoon anarchy symbol (eat flaming death)
[personal profile] sabotabby
Interesting that the Star calls Omar Khadr a war criminal and the SUN calls him a terrorist. Both terms are inaccurate ("child soldier" would be much more appropriate; "torture victim" is also relevant); both are intended to dehumanize this young man to the papers' respective readership and to invoke a sense of fear at the very existence of this psychologically broken individual.

But both papers are very canny about what will arouse that fear-and-dehumanization response amongst their readers. The SUN knows that the worst thing one can be is a terrorist*; the enlightened readers of the Star know that this is just silly fear-mongering. The worst thing that one can be to the common liberal is a war criminal. Just the thought conjures up images of concentration camps and rallies in Nuremberg, obfuscating entirely the act itself: the alleged throwing of a grenade by a 15-year-old brainwashed child at armed men who had voluntarily signed up to get paid to subjugate other countries.

At any rate, I'm rather hoping that Mr. Hallam himself doesn't get too much flak over this, because he sounds like a stand-up fellow and someone I'd get along with. Anyone who takes such a positive interest in the education of young people is fine by me!

* Unless one's terrorism is directed against women exercising their reproductive choices and health care providers who assist them in doing so. That kind of terrorism will get you a medal from the Queen.

Excellent

Date: 2012-10-21 09:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ed-rex.livejournal.com
You haven't friend-locked this, but I thought I'd check before "blogging" it around. Permission?

Good

Date: 2012-10-21 10:00 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ed-rex.livejournal.com
Yours is one of the best political minds I know, so thanks.

Quality vs quantity

Date: 2012-10-21 10:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ed-rex.livejournal.com
From where I sit, your physical problems might have hit at the quantity of your political postings, but not at the quality.

For that matter, your personal travails almost invariably have a political edge. Your last, for instance, hit home quite hard. I am one of those (mostly) able-bodied folks who need to hear what you said from time to time.

Date: 2012-10-21 10:32 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] smhwpf.livejournal.com
*nods* - so true.

So fucked up that the Canadian government can go along with this, keeping him in prison to serve out a sentence from a military tribunal after he'd been tortured when arrested - sorry, captured - as a minor. It's just hard to get one's head round.

Date: 2012-10-22 12:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icedrake.livejournal.com
You know, sabo, I've talked to a few soldiers local to this area. A major proportion of them are recruited from poor, undereducated communities, and the military is essentially the only way for them to get anywhere in life. You really think they sign up because they can't wait to go and subjugate other countries? They're not exactly asked whether they want to go -- and the ones who are in the reserves or the national guard never even expected to be sent off the continent. Fuck's sakes, most of the latter are weekenders who wanted to make some extra money for their family, maybe go clear some fallen trees and rescue people from snowed-under towns. You know what people were being told when they were up for discharge and didn't want to go to Iraq or Afghanistan? "Sure, you can apply for discharge, but as soon as you do, I'm putting you on the short list for deployment -- and if you do get deployed before you're discharged, that automatically makes you ineligible for discharge." How's that for freedom to choose?

As for brainwashing -- what do you think basic training is?
Your empathy seems awfully one-sided on this one.

Date: 2012-10-22 01:28 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icedrake.livejournal.com
I'm not for a moment saying that what happened to Khadr was right or just. I do, however, refuse to blame rank and file soldiers for his mistreatment.

As for your refusal to believe, well... Will you believe that enormous effort is put into selling the occupation to the recruits, starting with emphasizing the advantages and dismissing the risks? The guy I bought my car from used to be a military recruiter. The pressure to get recruits in was so intense that he quit after suffering a nervous breakdown. You think he was going to dwell on the shitty food, the physical demands, or -- more importantly, the difficult moral choices or the psychological strain?

Watch Fox News for a few hours and tell me how much they talk about the trauma soldiers experience in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'm surrounded by people who get all their information from Fox News. Who for the most part have no internet -- and have never been given a reason to look for news on there, even when they do get access. Newspapers? I'll let you know as soon as the local paper masters basic spelling, which will be long before it runs anything but strictly local news.

So no, people might not be ignorant of the risks, but you seem to suggest that they're given the tools and opportunity to evaluate the likelihood of these risks, when there is no evidence of this being the case.

I'm also not sure why you keep referencing the Canadian military, when only US military was involved in the fight that resulted in Khadr's capture. When I attempted to join the Canadian reserves (1998 or thereabouts), the attitude of the SSGT I spoke to (the Reserves set up a table at my high school) not only didn't pressure me, he even pointed out that most people -- himself included -- didn't join when they were as young as I was.

In the US army, an E3 (private first class) gets paid $1705.80/month before taxes (roughly $20,500/year), putting them at not quite twice the federal poverty level of income. Hardly what I'd call "well-compensated." From the article you linked, Canadian soldiers get paid half again as much.

Again, I'm not trying to justify what happened to Khadr. I don't think it's right and I don't think it's even legal. I'm opposed to both of the invasions the US embroiled itself in. But please, let's assign blame where it's actually due -- with the people who actually had the power and choice to send soldiers to kill and die -- not where generalizations let us spread it to.

Date: 2012-10-25 05:39 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icedrake.livejournal.com
I think we're failing to believe two mutually exclusive things, which is what's leading us to our respective positions on this.

You're failing to believe that the soldiers involved are unaware of the consequences of their actions. I, on the other hand, am failing to believe that people are joining the military en masse because of a burning desire to subjugate a far-away nation.

I hope you'll forgive a bit of story time, which I'd like to use to put my position in context.

Given: A US Army veteran -- later a military contractor -- in Iraq. Upon his return, he gets into a car accident, and is awarded some tens of thousands of dollars. His kids get new smartphones. He gets a new truck. His wife happens to work for us, and we find out some time later that the bathroom in their house has deteriorated to the point where the ceiling has fallen in, and the shower is pouring water into the wall cavity. You think any of the thousands of dollars were spent on that? Think again. Oh, and with winter coming on, the guy is so behind on payments to the gas company that they cut off deliveries, effectively leaving the house without heat. Oh, and the hospital is taking him to court for failing to pay the post-accident treatment bill.

Can you say "utter inability to foresee the consequences of one's actions"?

Same guy's step-daughter also happened to be my brother-in-law's girlfriend, and was also working for us. We take the notion of "family business" seriously around here :) She also quit with no notice. Well, not entirely true -- about ten hours before her start time she texted the company owner that she was quitting. Caused the owners -- and [livejournal.com profile] katfeete to cancel their respective vacations while we scrambled to cover for her. Still being the BiL's girifriend, she could only avoid the rest of the family for so long, so fast forward a few months down the road and at a holiday dinner, where the owners are mentioning that they're short on help, she volunteers to help out if they would like her to.

I am not disputing that the people who've joined the US military were, at some level, aware of the actions they would be likely engaged in. What I am disputing, though, is that there was a conscious connection in their minds between those actions and the consequences for the foreign country, except in the vaguest of senses (and frequently not even that). There are precious few Hollywood blockbusters who focus on the life of a civilian in a conquered country. Most war movies are unambiguous, and we all know we're the Good Guys -- because who the hell ever describes themselves as the Bad Guys?

Here's a sentence I'd have been more happy with, though it's rather ugly. I was trying to remain close to the original.

"alleged throwing of a grenade by a 15-year-old brainwashed child at brainwashed armed men who had voluntarily signed up to get shot at and shoot other people."

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