Morning provocation

[sabotabby]

If a white person brings up The Cosby Show in a discussion*, they are probably a racist.

True or false?


* In a discussion that is not, say, about 80s sitcoms.

Comments

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Usually, but perhaps not wittingly.

[sabotabby]

There aren't many witting racists left.

[apperception.livejournal.com]

Haha. Probably.

[sabotabby]

In my experience.

[caudelac.livejournal.com]

No? I mean, everyone watched The Cosby Show, right?

[rinue.livejournal.com]

Agreed. I am a white person who definitely loves the Cosby Show, especially that one episode in which Olivia (I think it was Olivia and not Rudy) made up a fairy tale in which all the older kids were villains who didn't like anything. One of the best sitcoms of all time.

Sabs likely expects us to parse "discussion" to mean something that isn't "conversation," which some people treat as synonyms and other people don't. In that context, I believe she is waggishly suggesting that "all my black friends" may include that friendly TV family the Cosbys.

Who were certainly friends to me.

[sabotabby]

Everyone watched it, but I mean in a non-TV sense of discussing it.

For conservative white people, it is shorthand for "why can't black people be more like Bill Cosby." At least, I'm pretty sure.

[icedrake.livejournal.com]

I find your implicit anti-immigrant sentiment offensive.

[firinel.livejournal.com]

*laughs* I think I understand what you're getting at, and if so, then yes, I'd agree.

[sabotabby]

I have not tested this theory but it bears testing.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Oh fuck yes. And they mean it in the nicest possible way.

[sabotabby]

Of course they do!

[mendaciloquent.livejournal.com]

Yeah. In fact, if a white person mentions the Cosby Show and you respond with, "You patronizing racist fuck", you'll probably save yourself 15 minutes of beating around the bush. Fucking fucks.

[sabotabby]

Hahahaha.

[smhwpf.livejournal.com]

Ha. They are almost certainly at least mildly racist through ignorance. Possibly in a way that is correctable, but if they cite it as a good example of TV teaching lessons in moral uprightness, possibly not so much.

[sabotabby]

This is, naturally, what prompted said entry.

[princealberic.livejournal.com]

I've never watched The Cosby Show but wasn't it a really popular TV show in the 80s? I'd just assume they were old enough to have watched it, idk. Why is it racist? I've seen it mentioned in posts about how The Cosby Show had black characters and did well but for some reason producers keep thinking that having more than a token black character in a show will kill their ratings or something, which is why I'm asking -- I'm not trying to start drama, I'm genuinely curious because I'm way too young to have watched it and it's never sounded like the kind of humour I'd be into so I never bothered, and I don't know a lot about it.

P.S.: Until recently I actually thought it was a talk show.

[sabotabby]

It was insanely popular, and everyone watched it (including me, though I didn't much care for it because it was a sitcom and lacked spaceships).

The show itself was in no way racist; it was actually quite progressive for its time. However. Google Bill Cosby's "Pound Cake" speech and you'll have a good idea of where he stands, politically, now. When white people reference the show, it tends to be less about things that were actually on the show, and more about, "why can't black people today be acceptably upper middle class and fun and loveable in a way that is palatable to me as a white person, and in particular, why can't black men be more like Bill Cosby and castigate other black men so that I don't have to?"

[symbioid.livejournal.com]

I mean, in the same way when they mention Bill Cosby in general regarding race relations and "these kids today"...

When I think about class and race and the Cosby Show, I can't help but think of "Breathing Apparatus" by The Coup:


Motherfuckers tryin to live like the Huxtables
Comfortable, but my bank account ain't functional
And now another thing that's disturbin me
how the fuzz gon' put you in the infirmary?

[sabotabby]

That's what I mean exactly.

[springheel-jack.livejournal.com]

You can talk about the sweaters, but you still shouldn't, because that joke was played out twenty-five years ago.

[sabotabby]

I feel like the sweaters speak for themselves.

[fengi.livejournal.com]

And if they bring up Chris Rock, just grab onto something and brace for impact.

[sabotabby]

When I hear, "There are black people and there—” I reach for my gun.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

In honor of ms. black. This pretty much sums some of her movies somehow.

[yes-justice.livejournal.com]

Also: Did you ever watch "The Brown Hornet?"








Bill "KA-Ching." Cosby

[marlowe1.livejournal.com]

No. Not automatically. It's not like "some of my best friends are black" or "I'm not racist but..." (this is always followed by something racist). However, there is a great deal of appropriation of Cosby and Chris Rock to justify racist bullshit - kind of like these people miss the subtlety of the difference between someone making fun of his sister and you calling his sister a whore.

[sabotabby]

I hear Chris Rock really regrets that routine.

[ironed_orchid]

What if it's a conversation about celebrities who seem to have a history of raping women?

[sabotabby]

Oh ick yuck I'd forgotten about that.

[threeliesforone.livejournal.com]

Yes. Also: Classist.

[sabotabby]

Naturally.

[xturtle.livejournal.com]

I usually bring it up because it's on the tv and neither the hubs nor I can flip past an episode of it. I'm completely creeped out by the man himself now, though, which is sadly in keeping with growing up and learning more about most of my childhood favorites.

[sabotabby]

I for serious posted this without knowing (or having forgotten) about the rape thing, which is a whole 'nother dimension of wrong.

Why were so many of our childhood icons rapists? WTF?

[hopita.livejournal.com]

I think context is everything. Are we just talking about bringing up the show in general terms? Or specific examples? What if you're talking about TV shows in general, but maybe not 80s sitcoms specifically?

Or what about as part of a discussion about something about which the show had something to say? An example: I remember with great fondness the episode where Claire finds out she's starting menopause. Everyone is treating her like she's insane, so she starts acting insane, to give them a dose of their own medicine. I haven't watched it in years, but I remember the end of the scene has her faking a hot flash and basically stuffing he face into the freezer.

Is it racist that that's my favorite sitcom moment dealing with menopause? Because quite frankly it's the menopause related story arc that I can remember on any sitcom ever.

Are you a racist because you brought up "The Cosby Show" in this post?

I feel like there's a backstory here that I'm missing. I've been pretty absent from LJ lately, so that's not especially surprising.

[sabotabby]

See my recent locked post for context, but basically it's a dogwhistle thing in a political/cultural discussion as a stand-in for the perceived moral decay of black America (or Canada in my case, I guess).

I'm pretty sure that my white ass has loads of unexamined racism as a result of growing up privileged in a racist culture, and there's an interesting tautology in my initial statement, but I'm talking about a particular phenomenon that I hope I'm not part of!

(And that was a great episode, yeah. The show itself did some cool things.)

[chainsaw-hime.livejournal.com]

For the record, I preferred Fat Albert.

[sabotabby]

I don't remember anything about it except there was a guy whose hat looked like a mushroom.

[rohmie.livejournal.com]

Let's ask an expert ...

[rohmie.livejournal.com]

Ah! I was actually thinking of the podcast. They don't actually get to the issue until the 7:30 mark.

[rohmie.livejournal.com]

Man! Expanding all those comments was exhausting. One thing I don't like about El Jay.

[sabotabby]

At least the post can still be found, though. Unlike FB or, even worse, Tumblr.