ACAB

[sabotabby]

The stupidest comment I've seen today (in response to a comment I made elsewhere about how police can basically murder with impunity):

"I don't think being put on adminstrative leave pending investigation and having your murder inspire riots and protests is "impunity.""

Pity the poor cop on paid leave who isn't currently dead or having his skull bashed in, unlike a good many other people. The only thing worse than cops is the culture of racism and bootlicking that enables them. And that's regular people with a fetish for authority and a delusion that what happened to that poor kid in Missouri won't ever happen to anyone they love.

Comments

[princealberic.livejournal.com]

and a delusion that what happened to that poor kid in Missouri won't ever happen to anyone they love.

If they and their loved ones are white, what happened to that poor kid probably won't happen to anyone they love.

[sabotabby]

I guess I'm demographically in a weird position in this regard, but I'm white and I think that Mike Brown could have been one of my kids. And, indeed, a kid in a school where I briefly taught was killed by cops.

But you're right in regards to most white people.

[princealberic.livejournal.com]

Do you mean black (and POC in general) kids or white kids from more marginalised communities as well? I generally agree with you and I think that a white person with normal emotions, even if they had white kids, would still think "imagine if that were my kid" and put themselves in the shoes of the boy's family.

But yeah, I don't think that most white people even consider it.

[sabotabby]

The majority of the kids I know are POC, but I'm not even sure it'd make a difference if they weren't. I hear about a kid dying on the radio and I worry until it's confirmed it's not one of mine. I think if you can't identify with a family's loss, of any colour, there is something broken in the bit that makes you human.

Judging by what's going on (I've been watching the news on and off all night), there is something broken in the vast majority of white Americans. The empathy bit, I think that's what's broken.

[rinue.livejournal.com]

In my anectodal personal experience, I'm a white person (a pale and small female white person, and someone bland enough looking I can work as a film extra when I want to) and I get hassled by cops when I'm in majority white places in the U.S. but not when I'm in racially diverse places in the U.S. There doesn't have to be a dramatic cultural difference; when I lived in the Dallas area, if I was on foot in a majority white neighborhood police were going to stop and ask me what I was up to, and if I was on foot in a majority hispanic neighborhood police were going to slow down, look at me, and then keep driving.

This holds true in my experience outside of Texas, and I've been more likely to get hassled outside of Texas because I've been in more majority-white places outside of Texas. I just think Texas provides a particularly clear example because I could lay two extremely similar towns or neighborhoods side by side, where the police forces draw from the same employment pool.

People who want to express their authority are going to go after somebody, just like rapists are going to go after somebody and bullies are going to go after somebody. If there's a black person around, they "win" and get to be the person to hassle. But once you've filtered out black people and hispanic people, eventually you get to a point where I'm the weirdest seeming one (whether because I read as slightly queer, or because I'm out of work at an unusual time of day, or because I pause to look at something nobody else paused to look at) and I get hassled and ordered around for no reason by loud-voiced armed people a foot taller and two feet wider than me.

I guess the people without empathy have so far managed to never be the weirdest person.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

Somebody elsenet suggested that non-white neighbourhoods is where they test out strategies they want to eventually move into white neighbourhoods.

[howlin-wolf-66.livejournal.com]

On the one hand, I can understand what that person was trying to say, because there MAY yet be consequences... On the other hand, I totally empathise with the pessimism of people who doubt it, based upon the handling of similar cases in history.

[sabotabby]

The easiest way I have to explain just how few consequences cops experience when they murder someone is to compare it to what happens when a regular person faces criminal charges.

For example, let's say I'm charged with drugs or arrested at a protest—both non-violent, victimless offences that shouldn't even be offences. I am white, educated, middle class, unionized, and a homeowner, which puts me in a far better position than most.

Before the case even goes to trial, if it ever goes to trial, I will be removed from my job. I will get paid leave (unlike most working people, who would just get fired), but I'll have to pay my own legal bills to fight the case. One of my friends, before her charges were dropped, spent $80,000 on her defence—this over five spindly little pot plants growing in her yard. The school board will conduct a separate investigation to determine whether it is safe for children to be around me, during which they will interrogate every aspect of my life, including very private matters. The burden of proof does not apply in this case; even if I'm acquitted in a criminal court, I can still have my teaching license revoked. I will be put through two very gruelling trials that may last years. Even if both resolve in my favour, it is highly unlikely that I'll be allowed to return to the same school.

The media is likely to get ahold of the story and run articles about criminal teachers, splashing my picture and name and as many scandalous details as they can find, ensuring that my reputation and career will never recover and reducing the chances of me finding work anywhere. All of this, by the way, before I'm found guilty or not.

If I am found guilty and put in prison for any length of time, the chances of me finding a similarly well-paying job are negligible. If I can find work at all with a criminal record, it will be for poverty wages.

Take all of the above and apply to a working class black person, and you have essentially a revolving door life-sentence. I'm very privileged by comparison but my life would be obliterated.

Now, compare to a cop, the majority of whom can shoot someone, get investigated by their buddies, and found to be not at fault. Yes, they may get some bad publicity, but people will leap to defend them and they tend to be back on the job after some paid leave within the year. The famous Officer Bubbles and the pepper spray guy even got promotions! Occasionally a situation arises where the murder is caught on camera or otherwise widely publicized, and there is a public outcry like this, but it's a very rare exception and serves only to show why it's so important to put the police under extra scrutiny, because in general cops get away with murder all the time.

[howlin-wolf-66.livejournal.com]

"Majority". I agree. ... but the point is that "impunity" is a hyperbolic word to use UNTIL we know the outcome of the investigation, and we don't... (yet)

I'm in no way defending what the cop did, BTW... he should be locked up. He probably won't be, but for the time being, we can't 'know' or assume that he'll get away with it.

I fully agree with the 'extra scrutiny' part.

[the_axel]

We'd don't need to wait on the outcome of this particular case to be able to make a reasonable assessment because we can look at historical evidence.
And in North America, the historical evidence is that cops get away with killing people all the fucking time.

From data gathered in the National Police Misconduct Statistics and Reporting Project in the US from April of 2009 through December 2010:
"426 law enforcement officers who were accused of using excessive force in incidents where a fatality occurred, only 28 faced charges and half of those who were prosecuted ended up being convicted."

So, if you are a cop in the US and you are identified as having killed someone, you have a 3% chance of being convicted. That's good enough to say 'with impunity' to me.

http://www.policemisconduct.net/the-problem-with-prosecuting-police-in-washington-state/

For Ontario (i.e. where sabotabby and I live, the culture is incredibly stacked in favour of the cops:

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2010/10/28/are_these_cops_above_the_law.html

And there's tonnes more data like this. Like the UK was before the West Midlands Crime Squad, Guildford 4, Birmingham 6, etc. cases came to light, the vast majority of the public believe whatever cops tell them, judges and prosecutors will tie themselves into knots to make the cops preferred stories fit the facts.

[howlin-wolf-66.livejournal.com]

The word "impunity" is rather definite - not a 'reasonable assessment'...

All of which is by the by, of course; people are free to use whatever words they want... However, I think calling the guy's initial comment "stupid" is unfair... He's entirely correct to point out that nobody has YET gotten away with anything, because no outcome has been decided upon... We may already think we know what it is, but our fears and suspicions have yet to be confirmed... That's just basic logic.

What you wrote above may well be true, but is irrelevant until such time as a judgement has actually been made... Then, we can debate whatever it happens to be until the cows come home... Right now, we don't have anything beyond supposition.

[the-siobhan.livejournal.com]

I think if I get to murder somebody and the worst thing that can happen to me as a result is that I lose my job, I would definitely consider that "impunity".

[sabotabby]

He won't even lose his job. That's likely why they're not releasing his name.

[kakodaimon.livejournal.com]

In my Saskatoon highschool we had a police liaison named Constable Brad. At some point from hearing his name on the radio and looking at his name tag I realised it was the same cop who was convicted of killing a Native guy by taking him outside the city limits, stripping his clothes, and leaving him by the highway in winter (this happened SO OFTEN in the police department that they had a term for it, "starlight tours"). His punishment was to become a police liaison instead of getting to patrol (and kill more Native people). When I complained to the principal, I remember her giving the excuse, "But he was young."

It's a whole other world of accountability.

[sabotabby]

I wish I could say that this surprised me but it does not surprise me.

Our police liaison told me that he would crack my skull in at the G20 in the most congenial manner possible. Nice guy. Great with the kids. Cops are people too.

[coconuthead.livejournal.com]

Administrative leave? OH SWEET JESUS NO! That's a fate worse than death!

[sabotabby]

POOR COP.