Any sufficiently white secularism is indistinguishable from fundamentalism

[sabotabby]

I'm an atheist but for the most part (and present company excepted, of course), I can't stand other atheists.

Here's why.


Everyone's in competition to be the new Daesh these days, enforcing its particular belief set on everyone else. Quebec, of course, has been at it a long time, forcibly undressing women in the name of feminism, and merrily smacking down any religion that isn't Catholicism.

Last time they pulled something like this, normal Quebecois who don't give a shit if their kids' teacher wears a yarmulke or if the doctor that saved their life wears a hijab, stood up to this abuse of human rights so obvious that they plan to invoke the glaring loophole that dooms what superficial vestiges of Canadian democracy exist, But I fear that like the rest of the world, Quebec has slid well past the ideological tipping point.

Like are the bodies of the dead Muslims in the Christchurch massacre inspired by the Quebec massacre even buried yet? Have they no decency? 

Comments

[conuly]

Like are the bodies of the dead Muslims in the Christchurch massacre inspired by the Quebec massacre even buried yet? Have they no decency?

To answer your first question literally, yes. Islam does not allow for people to delay on funerals, which are supposed to take place within a day (except in rare situations, such as when an autopsy is necessary). To answer your second question, no, they don't.

[sabotabby]

Both were rhetorical questions, of course.

[ironed_orchid]

It's funny how it's so often majority catholic regions which use the pretense of secularism to invoke racist bullshit.

::side eyes France::

[sabotabby]

That’s where they get their playbook.

[ironed_orchid]

Quelle surprise.

[wlach]

It's really disappointing, though this has been a long time coming -- there's been a really ugly undertones of racism and intolerance in Quebec society brewing for decades, and even less willingness to acknowledge it than elsewhere in North America because of a (mostly invalid, IMO) shared sense of cultural persecution and isolation.

My disgust with the predecessor of this bill (the so-called charter of values) was part of what figured into my decision to leave Montreal 5 years ago.

[sabotabby]

Yep; my family endured that when my mum was growing up there. It's not a new thing.

[minoanmiss]

I need more hands to facepalm with.

[sabotabby]

I wish I were an octopus, then I could do all the facepalms I feel.

[wolby]

The fucking crucifix above the speaker's chair! Gets mentioned only 2/3 of the way through the article!! What!!!!

[sabotabby]

They plan on moving it. Not getting rid of it. Moving it.

Some people's religions get respected. Just...you know. Not the brown ones.

[notasupervillain]

In the end, most ideologies seem to come down to controlling women's bodies without concern for bystander casualties. I'm not surprised that atheism is that too.

[sabotabby]

Yup. Either tell women to cover up or tell women to take it off but there's never an option of just asking women.

[notasupervillain]

Women's bodies must conform to men's religious beliefs. If some kippah-wearing men get caught in the crossfire, that's a price we just have to pay.

[smhwpf]

I think there's a big difference between atheism, the belief that there is no God, and Secularism.

Well, there are two forms of Secularism, and I'm not sure if there's good English words to distinguish, because 'Laicity' is a horrible word.

The good form of Secularism is the separation of religion from the state, namely that no religion should have any special or official status, and that state institutions should not push the ideas of a particular religion, or of religion in general (or of atheism or other non-religious philosophies)

The bad form (IMO), which used to be practised in Turkey, and is in France and now Quebec, is to seek to police and exclude religious expression from the public sphere.

One says that you do not give any privileged status to religion in a public school, the other says that individuals, students and teachers, have to check their religion at the school door.

Obviously this is overwhelmingly (though not exclusively) used against minority religions.

[sabotabby]

Of course, this is not actually secularism, or atheism, but both have been so infected by white male fanaticism that, much like libertarianism, it's term that's lost its original meaning.

I'm all for separating religion and state, naturally. But my version of it would be abolishing publicly funded Catholic schools and taking the cross down, rather than regulating what people wear.

[lapinlunaire]

Of course, this is not actually secularism, or atheism, but both have been so infected by white male fanaticism that, much like libertarianism, it's term that's lost its original meaning.

Yes, this. Also, when it's Islamic extremists being shitty there's an infine amount of thinkpieces about whether Islam itself is the issue. When it's atheism and white dudebros people are more likely to point out that not all atheism. Which is true, but that doesn't mean that atheism as an organised thing isn't political and isn't very, very oriented towards a certain demographic.

[sabotabby]

Fortunately for the Muslims, there are plenty of examples that one can point to if one needs to demonstrate that it's not Islam in general, it's politics/geography/misogyny etc. But atheism as an organized thing is comparatively small and the assholes have almost completely taken over. I'd like to take it, and secularism back, as I feel both are valuable concepts in a pluralistic democracy, but I'm quickly conceding that we may need to find a different word for it.

[lapinlunaire]

It's not just atheists unfortunately. Atheism is just the hip new cover that pretends to claim that it's impartial.

[sabotabby]

Traditionally in Quebec, these assholes would be Catholic. Except they still are, but they're the religious equivalent of dry drunks, refusing to believe that while they may have disowned the trappings, they're repeating the same behaviours.