Hello, I was randomly browsing journals and came across rantipole6's hummer graphic. I left an honest question, followed by a slightly smug question, but was met with much hostility. I attempted to explain myself, but each post, no matter how polite, was denied and deleted. Gotta love censorship. I'm finding myself with a broken leg and too much time on my hands, so fuck it:
Preface: I do think Hummers are usually wasteful, as are many human luxaries. However, I am often perplexed at the blanket hostility towards Hummer H3 owners, so I thought I'd dig a little. I am extremely liberal, progressive, and work in the environmental field and I actually worry deeply about the environment. I vote Green when possible, and anything but Republican the other times. I find hypocrisy and selective idealogy - in the name of self affirmation - to be amusing. I can't stand the idea that it is said on that journal that I'm a Republican. --- The topic: I merely wanted to ask rantipole6 if he also scoffs at people who drive a Jetta and takes leisurely flights on airplanes. A genuine question, as the carbon footprint would be around the same in many scenarios (but cetainly not all). He apparently did not like the answer.
Obviously the point isn't to save the environment. The point for many of these people is the TREND of saving the environment.
I happen to know people who are professional academics. They take plane trips to Portland, OR, Puerto Rico, and even INDIA (from Baton Rouge). They drive a Honda Civic Hybrid and make fun of some guy that lives down the street that drives a Hummer to work and does not travel much at all. He's obviously an asshole for killing the environment, they say.. then they pack up, go on a jet plane, and get a hotel in some far away city just to be able to show how worldly they are. That's great and all, but why the hypocrisy, is all I'm asking?
I, uh, don't really care. I'm not rantipole6, nor will I speak for her. I'm rather amused that you came to my LJ to complain though, given that I'm probably a much more hostile audience and far less polite.
Anyway, since we're sharing: I'm not a liberal, and I don't like the Green Party any more than I like the Democrats, Ralph Nader being a scab and a hypocrite. So your credentials don't particularly impress me. I have a deep suspicion people who make environmentalism the primary focus of their activism. In case you're wondering, I don't drive a Jetta or a Honda Civic; in fact, I don't drive at all. I do take flights when I can, which is usually once every three years, though I look forward to the day when airplanes are replaced by fuel-efficient, clean-burning zeppelins.
I also—and here's a fun twist for a non-driver—used to edit and illustrate car and truck guides for a living. So I know a little bit about fuel efficiency, reliability, and practicality even though I haven't been behind the wheel in over a decade. Hummers are gas guzzlers (well, everyone knows that), unsafe for both their drivers and other people on the road, and completely impractical for urban living. Also, they're expensive. It's not difficult to find out this information, so anyone who spends the money just to make a fashion statement deserves more mockery than I have time to throw at him. You don't just "accidentally" buy a Hummer.
Also, people who drive Hummers have tiny penises. But I digress.
We all make ethical compromises. I won't drink Starbucks or Coke, but here I am, arguing over the internet on a computer with components that come from mines in the Congo, thus contributing to a brutal civil war there. However, symbolically, a Hummer shows that you aren't even trying. It's just a big fuck you to the environment and to the people in Iraq and Afghanistan who are dying because somehow our oil got under their sand. That's just not cool.
This said, I'm still not convinced that you are a real person and not some poorly aimed viral marketing campaign.
Nice. Are you of Palestinian descent? My father is from Tripoli, Lebanaon - but is a Roman Catholic Palestinian. His name is Jenan, after the town they were from. I speak fluently and somewhat know Arabic in written form, incase you ever want to berate me incognito.
I wish I could throw my car away, but I live in a town that is nearly impossible to get around while having a job, without a car. I'm highly interested in all-electric vehicles and infrastructure, as I think that's the way to go. Hybrid batteries don't really amuse me, nor do mercury light bulbs.
I'm not actually Palestinian, and my Arabic is limited to a few phrases that my friends taught me. I'm just involved in Palestinian solidarity activism.
I'm not convinced that electric cars are a permanent solution either. A tremendous amount of resources go into the manufacture of any sort of car, and the batteries are deadly. I doubt in the future that everyone will be able to get their own vehicle, but when I suggest this, it seems to make a lot of people unhappy.
the fact that you brought up a completely invalid contrast is probably why nobody cares to give you an answer and also shows that you seem to have a sore spot when someone accurately acknowledges that no one should own a hummer and anyone who does is an arrogant twit.
People who drive hummers choose to damage the environment by driving what they drive. Most people who fly on planes have very little other choice than to travel that way. who can spend 10 days on a cruise ship crossing the atlantic these days for business?
And besides, chigaco to london is about 4000 miles, plane burns 22,000 gallons, holds about 250 passengers. That equals about 45 miles per gallon per passenger. WAY better than a Hummer.
My stance is that most of these flights are no more necessary than the additional weight of a Hummer H3. What the fuck do you need to go to London for? Because you enjoy it? That's what the hummer guy is going to cite as his reasoning, as well.
Uh, what? You cite academics specifically, who often have to travel for work. I eagerly await the day that I can carry out all international collaborations by video-link and remote-controlled lab robot so I don't have to sit on a plane surrounded by wanky conservatives (who obviously NEVER travel on planes, right?) and their whining, bottle-fed, caffeinated infants for 14 hours, kthx. Either that or the zeppelins. But until then, how else do you suggest that I work with research groups in other countries?
Also, I know of plenty of academics who travel by train where possible- including someone who is going from the UK to Hungary by rail for a conference. Maybe if you started bitching about the lack of decent rail alternatives in the US (I imagine that's where you are, as no one in any other country things that driving a fucking huge all-terrain vehicle in a town makes sense), you'd actually have some effect on the issue you claim to be concerned with.
Why do people take this so personally? Having rational conversation on the internet is like getting lost in a cave. Plenty of non-sequitors and misdirection.
I cited an example of people, who DO NOT TRAVEL TO FUCKING PUERTO RICO, PORTLAND, OR INDIA FOR FUCKING WORK YOU FUCKING TARD.. I was not making a blanket statement about all humans on Earth. Just used an example. Get a grip. If your work requires you to travel somehwere, then that's on them, not you. I'm not about policing somebody's carbon footprint. I'm more for better infrastructure from the energy production and utilization side.
The question is:
If a person drives a Jetta (popular car for hipsters for some reason) and travels on jet planes for leisure (to visit, to marvel in their worldliness, etc.) - and if that person uses as much (or more) carbon footprint as the person who drives a Hummer H3 (Hummer = contrasting posterboy for asshole polluters) - then is this person in the Jetta also scoffed at in the same way as the Hummer driver? Fuck no.
I've never seen some clever graphic depicting an academic traveling to India to write a thesis paper on Urban poor and meanwhile taking a trip around the world for the fuck of it - in a negative "youre an asshole for polluting the planet" connotation.
The whole point is that there is a fad element to it. (Atleast, here in the states)
You could fly all over the damn place because you have the money but still be able to criticize your neighbor who drives a stupid Hummer that gets 10 miles per gallon less than a normal car. America is full of hypocrisy and bumper-sticker slogans that perpetuate most of our politics. "support the troops" blah blah.
This isn't a black and white, with us or against us, type deal.
The world isn't ready to look beyond convenient politically correct environmentalism, so I'll leave this kind person's livejournal alone from now on, as I've intruded enough already.
you've been the only one taking it personally as well as making an inane and unnecessary argument because why?
hummers are for assholes. i made that statement and i don't need to provide an equating example of something else that makes me angry to validate it. what was your point? you didn't have one, you just wanted to win the internets and that's sad. almost as sad as, what i thought was a grown person, using the word "tard" (wah!)
politically correct environmentalism haha... how are your local libertarian candidates fairing?
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-22 02:20 am (UTC)I was randomly browsing journals and came across rantipole6's hummer graphic. I left an honest question, followed by a slightly smug question, but was met with much hostility. I attempted to explain myself, but each post, no matter how polite, was denied and deleted. Gotta love censorship. I'm finding myself with a broken leg and too much time on my hands, so fuck it:
Preface: I do think Hummers are usually wasteful, as are many human luxaries. However, I am often perplexed at the blanket hostility towards Hummer H3 owners, so I thought I'd dig a little. I am extremely liberal, progressive, and work in the environmental field and I actually worry deeply about the environment. I vote Green when possible, and anything but Republican the other times. I find hypocrisy and selective idealogy - in the name of self affirmation - to be amusing. I can't stand the idea that it is said on that journal that I'm a Republican.
---
The topic:
I merely wanted to ask rantipole6 if he also scoffs at people who drive a Jetta and takes leisurely flights on airplanes. A genuine question, as the carbon footprint would be around the same in many scenarios (but cetainly not all). He apparently did not like the answer.
Obviously the point isn't to save the environment. The point for many of these people is the TREND of saving the environment.
I happen to know people who are professional academics. They take plane trips to Portland, OR, Puerto Rico, and even INDIA (from Baton Rouge). They drive a Honda Civic Hybrid and make fun of some guy that lives down the street that drives a Hummer to work and does not travel much at all. He's obviously an asshole for killing the environment, they say.. then they pack up, go on a jet plane, and get a hotel in some far away city just to be able to show how worldly they are. That's great and all, but why the hypocrisy, is all I'm asking?
Re: from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-22 02:53 am (UTC)I, uh, don't really care. I'm not
Anyway, since we're sharing: I'm not a liberal, and I don't like the Green Party any more than I like the Democrats, Ralph Nader being a scab and a hypocrite. So your credentials don't particularly impress me. I have a deep suspicion people who make environmentalism the primary focus of their activism. In case you're wondering, I don't drive a Jetta or a Honda Civic; in fact, I don't drive at all. I do take flights when I can, which is usually once every three years, though I look forward to the day when airplanes are replaced by fuel-efficient, clean-burning zeppelins.
I also—and here's a fun twist for a non-driver—used to edit and illustrate car and truck guides for a living. So I know a little bit about fuel efficiency, reliability, and practicality even though I haven't been behind the wheel in over a decade. Hummers are gas guzzlers (well, everyone knows that), unsafe for both their drivers and other people on the road, and completely impractical for urban living. Also, they're expensive. It's not difficult to find out this information, so anyone who spends the money just to make a fashion statement deserves more mockery than I have time to throw at him. You don't just "accidentally" buy a Hummer.
Also, people who drive Hummers have tiny penises. But I digress.
We all make ethical compromises. I won't drink Starbucks or Coke, but here I am, arguing over the internet on a computer with components that come from mines in the Congo, thus contributing to a brutal civil war there. However, symbolically, a Hummer shows that you aren't even trying. It's just a big fuck you to the environment and to the people in Iraq and Afghanistan who are dying because somehow our oil got under their sand. That's just not cool.
This said, I'm still not convinced that you are a real person and not some poorly aimed viral marketing campaign.
Re: from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-22 03:17 am (UTC)I'm simply wondering if people are able to hold jet-set hipsters to the same level of disgust. It's really that simple.
True, I took offense to being called a Republican, but that's besides the point.
I don't care if you're hostile. It's the internet, but I do like to engage in people who are capable of exchanging ideas and perspective. Thanks.
Re: from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-22 03:24 am (UTC)Re: from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-22 03:29 am (UTC)I wish I could throw my car away, but I live in a town that is nearly impossible to get around while having a job, without a car. I'm highly interested in all-electric vehicles and infrastructure, as I think that's the way to go. Hybrid batteries don't really amuse me, nor do mercury light bulbs.
Re: from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-22 03:37 am (UTC)I'm not convinced that electric cars are a permanent solution either. A tremendous amount of resources go into the manufacture of any sort of car, and the batteries are deadly. I doubt in the future that everyone will be able to get their own vehicle, but when I suggest this, it seems to make a lot of people unhappy.
Re: from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-23 05:10 pm (UTC)Re: from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-23 06:15 pm (UTC)Re: from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-23 06:27 pm (UTC)P.S. They figured out that if they add sails to boats, they increase fuel efficiency. Doh!
Re: from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-22 03:37 am (UTC)Re: from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-22 03:42 am (UTC)And besides, chigaco to london is about 4000 miles, plane burns 22,000 gallons, holds about 250 passengers. That equals about 45 miles per gallon per passenger. WAY better than a Hummer.
Re: from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-22 03:55 am (UTC)Granted, I can't stand the things.
Re: from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-22 07:46 am (UTC)Also, I know of plenty of academics who travel by train where possible- including someone who is going from the UK to Hungary by rail for a conference. Maybe if you started bitching about the lack of decent rail alternatives in the US (I imagine that's where you are, as no one in any other country things that driving a fucking huge all-terrain vehicle in a town makes sense), you'd actually have some effect on the issue you claim to be concerned with.
Re: from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-22 08:11 am (UTC)I cited an example of people, who DO NOT TRAVEL TO FUCKING PUERTO RICO, PORTLAND, OR INDIA FOR FUCKING WORK YOU FUCKING TARD.. I was not making a blanket statement about all humans on Earth. Just used an example. Get a grip. If your work requires you to travel somehwere, then that's on them, not you. I'm not about policing somebody's carbon footprint. I'm more for better infrastructure from the energy production and utilization side.
The question is:
If a person drives a Jetta (popular car for hipsters for some reason) and travels on jet planes for leisure (to visit, to marvel in their worldliness, etc.) - and if that person uses as much (or more) carbon footprint as the person who drives a Hummer H3 (Hummer = contrasting posterboy for asshole polluters) - then is this person in the Jetta also scoffed at in the same way as the Hummer driver? Fuck no.
I've never seen some clever graphic depicting an academic traveling to India to write a thesis paper on Urban poor and meanwhile taking a trip around the world for the fuck of it - in a negative "youre an asshole for polluting the planet" connotation.
The whole point is that there is a fad element to it. (Atleast, here in the states)
You could fly all over the damn place because you have the money but still be able to criticize your neighbor who drives a stupid Hummer that gets 10 miles per gallon less than a normal car. America is full of hypocrisy and bumper-sticker slogans that perpetuate most of our politics. "support the troops" blah blah.
This isn't a black and white, with us or against us, type deal.
The world isn't ready to look beyond convenient politically correct environmentalism, so I'll leave this kind person's livejournal alone from now on, as I've intruded enough already.
Re: from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-22 11:59 am (UTC)Re: from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-22 02:09 pm (UTC)hummers are for assholes. i made that statement and i don't need to provide an equating example of something else that makes me angry to validate it. what was your point? you didn't have one, you just wanted to win the internets and that's sad. almost as sad as, what i thought was a grown person, using the word "tard" (wah!)
politically correct environmentalism haha... how are your local libertarian candidates fairing?
Re: from rantipole6's journal
Date: 2008-07-22 03:17 pm (UTC)....I heart you. (This, plus everything else you said.)