A thread about communes

[sabotabby]

I was just relating to some people on Discord that my problem with Starhawk's The Fifth Sacred Thing, a book that had an embarrassingly large influence on me as a young person relative to its actual quality, is that no one in her anarchist communes ever fight over who does the dishes, and this is not realistic. By coincidence, someone on Facebook just linked to this amazing thread that had me cracking up in—well, whatever the opposite of nostalgia is.

Favourite tweet:

there are going to be people replying to these tweets with "WELL I LIVED IN ONE AND IT WAS FINE" and i would like to point out that the commune i lived in had lots of people in it who also thought ants and mold and loud music were fine or just weren't aware of them

Anyway if you've ever lived in this sort of housing arrangement or live in one now, go check it out.

Comments

[frenzy]

The commune I lived in the longest was big enough that dishes was a job and it was someone’s job to do them.

Honestly in a place as chaotic as that place was, doing pots and pans ( A job separate from the dishes ) was a solace.

Lived in plenty of other communes where the dishes were a struggle tho.

[sabotabby]

I lived in one semi-functional co-op (gender plays a huge role; the majority female version was great, the majority male one was a rat-infested hellscape. Which is not to downplay the individual menz involved, as 1.0 had good guys who did their share, and 2.0 did not) but mostly collective living situations I've been in fell apart over housework.

I also just don't get why people don't do dishes immediately after eating. I realize that my habit of doing the pots and pans before eating is a bit weird, but I've never understood "just let them soak."

[frenzy]

I find doing dishes after eating to be a struggle, but I do them every night now, and Z and I switch days, so its always mostly even. Before then, dishes were a struggle and a fight between us. chores really can make or break a place.

maybe thats why jpusa has lasted so long. dedicated people to dedicated work to keeping the place running.

[franklanguage]

I do the dishes right after eating also; maybe if I had to do the whole household's dishes all the time I wouldn't be this diligent, but I live alone, so I see no reason not to just get it over with.

If I have a pan I've sautéed some food onto, I might put that in to soak a bit, but I'm adamant about not leaving dirty dishes out.

[conuly]

take a shit for an hour without someone ingratiatingly tapping on the door because they need to take a shower and go to work.

I feel like this *specific* issue, which isn't limited to communes, could be mitigated somewhat for all living situations that have more people than toilets and/or showers if we'd stop putting the bath in the same room as the toilet. Which is actually a little disgusting when you think about it - cleaning in the same room you piss? Ew.

[sabotabby]

Yeah but reworking physical infrastructure is more expensive than behaviour modification.

[conuly]

We could at least stop doing it for new construction.

(Sorry, this post walked into a pet peeve.)

[sabotabby]

We could!

[franklanguage]

The bathtub in my 1895 tenement apartment is in the kitchen, and I have a water closet with just a toilet; it had actually been an unspoken goal of mine to live in an apartment with the bathtub in the kitchen.

[conuly]

We all need goals. Next up: cold water fifth-floor walkup? Or is that already the case too?

[franklanguage]

Sixth floor—that wasn't in my plans—but there's heat and hot water.

[lydamorehouse]

This thread is the best. I was only ever commune-adjacent, having had a girlfriend living in one.

[sabotabby]

Commune-adjacent is great. It's all the benefits of the company without having to empty the rat traps.

[lapinlunaire]

Empty the what now

[sabotabby]

Oh, the rat traps. You know, for the rats.

I remember hooking up with this anarchist guy who lived around the block in a commune, and I went over to his house for the first time. We walk in the door and meet some of his housemates.

Him: "How's the rat situation?"
Housemate: "Fewer than yesterday. Still greater than zero rats."

My place did get rats eventually after it was mainly guys who refused to clean up. One of them stabbed a dead one with a barbecue fork and chased me around with it, which should give you some indication of why I moved out.

[lapinlunaire]

I've never lived in a commune. I briefly thought it sounded cool when I was a teenager but then I had regular flatmates who were shitty in various ways and that was enough for me. I feel like communes and other ~alternative leftist~ settings tend to attract a lot of gross, douchey people, especially men, and it's just not for me.

The point about mental illness is a+. It annoys me when people talk about how communal living is the way to go as if it's one-size fits all.

I used to be kind of ashamed and worried this made me ~burgeois~ but now idgaf, I don't need to prove my revolutionary cred by doing dishes for random guys or sleep among trash or magically make myself mentally healthy lol

[sabotabby]

I used to be kind of ashamed and worried this made me ~burgeois~ but now idgaf, I don't need to prove my revolutionary cred by doing dishes for random guys or sleep among trash or magically make myself mentally healthy lol

Yes, this. I don't like the martyr element of the left at all. I am only ever going to be happy living alone and if that makes me bougie, so be it.

[lapinlunaire]

Seriously! It's also interesting how "leftist virtue" can be synonymous with "stuff some white bro is comfortable with or likes, how dare people be different"

Not to mention that in the 21st century people's understanding of mental illness, especially among people who think they're woke, should surely be more nuanced than that.

[marahmarie]

"Gross, douchey people" come in (strongly) non-leftist flavors, too, which I never would've known *without* having had multiple roommate situations, so there you go.

[lapinlunaire]

I know douchebags exist across the political spectrum. But a) I think certain types of situations are more likely than others to attract them, and b) in the case of leftist types it's hypocritical and that makes it worse to me.

[marahmarie]

Well, I could go into a long thinky thread on how hypocrisy exists on both ends of the spectrum, especially on the right, which tends to fall in line and play follow the leader so they never question what they're told to think or do or how to react, but that's just getting off-track.

Not to mention in this country at least (US) a lot of our diehard Trumpists and/or right-wingers are former Clintonites. I mean, I know we lost a lot of them to people like Trump in the end. Clinton was his own form of cleaned-up cult figure and we had no one after him, really, to fill the hole he left in people's imaginations. So.

[lapinlunaire]

Not to be rude but I'm not sure how this is related to leftist guys not doing dishes...?

[marahmarie]

LOL, you were saying "I feel like communes and other ~alternative leftist~ settings tend to attract a lot of gross, douchey people" then further down you said "I know douchebags exist across the political spectrum. But a) I think certain types of situations are more likely than others to attract them, and b) in the case of leftist types it's hypocritical" so I was pointing out people on the right can be that way, too (gross, douchey *and* hypocritical).

Though maybe in the case of say, Clintonites turned Trumpists "hypocrites" isn't the right word. Turn-coats is more like it.

[lapinlunaire]

Yes? I stand by what I said. A lot of leftist situations have a "broken step" problem. I didn't say that there are no douchebags or hypocrites in the right and I'd appreciate if you didn't try to put words in my mouth.

If you want to split hairs though, I don't think Clintonites are "leftists" at all lmao so it's not really a stretch or related to what I said.

[marahmarie]

I never put words in your mouth. I pointed out another group, rightists, can be the same way as your much-personally-loathed leftists. I never suggested you said that. Only I said that. What you really mean to say is "stop interjecting your differing opinions" (*now* I'm putting words in your mouth, wasn't before) which is fine by me.

And yeah, so Clintonites are neoliberals so that was soooo wrong to say - are you done with me yet.

[lapinlunaire]

Seriously I couldn't even finish that thread it makes me want to throw up and die

[sabotabby]

There are grosser things that happen, even.

[lapinlunaire]

N O P E

[lapinlunaire]

@marahmarie

"much-personally-loathed leftists"

lmao omg what

Also you had a tantrum over stuff I didn't say and banned me from replying to you on someone else's journal sorry but are you a 60 year old on facebook

[marahmarie]

Oh so you weren't done with me yet, figured as much.

I lost track of where I was going the other night with you but then you put words in my mouth saying I was putting words in your mouth when no, I wasn't.

My motivation was "...if it makes you feel any better there's some nasty, dirty people on the right". It's not an ideological thing, I'll put my name on that. But you framed it as one.

I'd go live with right-wing people before I lived with left-wing people after seeing what you wrote *if* I didn't know any better, so I thought I should say something both to sympathize with you/others in that situation and to correct the record.

I'm not missing much banning you though, not when you engage in ageism and think I got my AARP card already (six more months and yeah, I will!), cool beans.

(I said "engage in ageism at Walmart" originally then extended that thought a bit, but that was someone else I was thinking of. I don't use Facebook. Do the "60 year olds" act up a lot on there? My sympathies - again.

And yeah, personally loathed by you on a below-ground level and you explained why. Maybe you vote with them despite your dislike of living with them, I don't care.

[lapinlunaire]

@marahmarie

OK Boomer.

You're losing your shit over things you're reading into my comments that aren't there.

I won't keep arguing with you out of respect for Sabs, whose journal this is, because you're her friend and I don't know if you're unwell or what. But you need to calm the fuck down and stop trying to start drama on someone else's journal over something that doesn't exist.

[marahmarie]

"OK Boomer"

It's too bad I can't ban you again, with notifs on, just for the sheer satisfaction of you flailing around over it. I don't agree with "OK Boomer" terminology or any of the other ageist crap you keep flingng at me. Fwiw, I'm not old enough to be a Boomer. An AARP card makes you 50. I don't think I'm the one acting unwell (I don't *feel* upset),and that you need to simmer down a bit.

Just the fact that you're @'ing me to evade the ban is telling, not to mention makes banning pointless, to say the least.