welp

[sabotabby]

I am practicing self-care by not reading the Neil Gaiman article. Guy's a piece of shit. I don't need details, I don't think.

Comments

[angelofthenorth]

Very wise. The people I know who read even some of it have been horrified

[sabotabby]

Same.

[joymoose]

This is the correct response. I think the women he hurt deserved to have their stories told but it isn’t mandatory reading.

(I tried reading it and failed. It was too much for me.)

[sabotabby]

We can know it happened and believe them.

[frandroid]

Like someone else said, there's so much legal vetting happening in stories like this, if it made it to print, it's basically bulletproof.

[sabotabby]

Yeah, good point.

[kore]

I read it, and wished I hadn't. It's nightmarish. (But should obviously be published, and attention paid.)

[sabotabby]

For sure.

[frenzy]

I've heard enough feedback to know I don't need to read it. Fucking sad though. Again, fuck men and yes all men.

[sabotabby]

So gross.

[batdina]

me too.

[sabotabby]

It feels like the safer/saner choice.

[dissectionist]

I have to say, I far prefer the openly malevolent men who will tell you who they are, over the men who have learned to use the language of feminism and social justice to cloak themselves (such as Neil, Louie CK, and an abuser that was in both of our mutual acquaintance). While I don’t like any of them, it’s a hell of a lot simpler to spot the ones who are terrible and honest about it.

[sabotabby]

See, I pinged to Louis CK. But obviously not to said abuser, and not to Neil.

[agoodwinsmith]

When one knows so much will ooze out as things unfold, holding off full horror as long as one can is reasonable.

[sabotabby]

I saw enough when the allegations first came out. There was enough there that no way were people making it up.

[kore]

When the podcast first dropped, I heard there were NDAs and it was like, game over. No good ever came out of anyone signing an NDA, for whatever reason.

[frandroid]

Yeah, NDAs from an author? Like, yeah.

[kore]

The Weinstein reporting and trials induced a near-Pavlovian response to the word, truly.

[sabotabby]

Also just workplaces in general.

[maeve66]

I did read it and it is horrifying. But I have always disliked Gaiman and his work, so it didn't hit for those reasons. Nihilistic Kid's FB post highlighting the generational Scientology aspect was illuminating. God, they're a disgusting cult.

[sabotabby]

Yeah—doesn't excuse it but explains why in addition to it being gross, it's also weird.

[kore]

Do you have a link to that?

[sabotabby]

It's on FB.

[minoanmiss]

I saved it. I will read it one day. But not today. Either way, I believe them.

sigh

[sabotabby]

Exactly.

[altamira16]

Did Amanda Palmer get her divorce, or can she make bank in divorce proceedings because her dude was a garbage pile?

[frandroid]

I think the article is saying that Gaiman is dragging divorce through the legal mud and she's the one who's ruined at this point. I didn't finish reading the article for time reasons, but it seems like she was aware of some of the abuse and did not oppose it, at the very least. The comments on bluesky seem to indicate that she supported it.

[sabotabby]

It sounds like she's also a garbage pile, in ways that are much worse than people used to say.

[altamira16]

Yes, people were speculating that she is also a garbage pile months ago.

https://www.reddit.com/r/neilgaiman/comments/1fiy1ae/nervous_question_how_complicit_was_amanda_palmer/

[flamingsword]

TW: sexual assault
She is also a(n alleged) sexual assaulter. She grabbed a friend of a friend by the dick one time coming off stage drunk at a show. Dude already had rape trauma, and then she did that and he froze in the moment but later started having meltdowns and panic attacks about it. Just … who fucking does that? A trash fire of a person. Non- trash fire people don’t grab strangers, don’t touch other people’s junk without permission, don’t think they get to make decisions about other people’s consent.

So yeah, she’s an abuser too.

[sabotabby]

Fucked up.

[lcohen]

i did read it, slowly and intermittently, taking plenty of breaks. some of it is confusing, honestly, because the women were so gaslighted that they weren't sure what was happening. palmer comes off weirdly--i can't tell how complicit she was--i think it probably varied over time. i absolutely believe the women.

the scientology bits....i had a cousin who was involved in scientology and i'm so glad i didn't know what i know now because as upset as we were, we would have been ten times as upset. (he is no longer living.) anyway, the whole thing is horrifying and not reading it seems like a very good decision, even though i did.

[sabotabby]

It's like a layer cake of terrible.

[gingeriana]

OH.MY.GOD
i lived in very happy ignorance, you know
now that i've googled it, would really like to unknow this all

[sabotabby]

Oh no, I'm sorry. I assumed I wasn't breaking the news to anyone but I accidentally broke the news to a bunch of people.

[lydamorehouse]

You really do NOT.

[sabotabby]

I can believe the women and never give him money again. That's the only action I can take that is useful here.

[khalinche]

I read it and it's extremely thorough and detailed, and the details are very very grim. As others are saying, it has presumably been legally vetted to hell and back. I don't think it could ever have been published in the UK: British libel laws would make it impossible. The scope and meticulousness of the piece is really something.

I think I largely agree with the person on bluesky who said that no women or sexual assault survivors should "have to" read the article, but that it should be required reading for anyone, particularly men, who minimise or dismiss how badly other men can behave and what the impact of that can be.

Grim. Grim grim grim.

[sabotabby]

I can get behind that.

[xturtle]

I used to be a sexual assault victim advocate and while it burnt me out, I'm pretty inured to written narratives, especially journalistic stories, because of it. This was an exception. There is stuff involving his kid that fucked me right up. It just has pattern reproduction written all over it. Anyway, good choice, and you've probably read enough to already know it's in there, but just in case, an additional warning.

[sabotabby]

I've read that there is kid stuff and that was one of the things that made me decide that I couldn't read it right now.