podcast friday

[sabotabby]

 I have things that I should write about in more detail but I'm having about three weeks of bonkerscrazytimeclownshoes, so have a brief recommendation for Tech Won't Save Us's episode "What’s Driving the Push For Humanoid Robots ft. James Vincent."

Now that I know lots more about robots than I used to, I can tell you that humanoid is maybe the worst shape for a robot. If you don't believe me, watch some videos from the Consumer Electronics Show. They fall down all the time. Sometimes, as with Elon Musk's robots, they are just guys in suits and not robots at all. Humanoid is a bad shape for a human (this observation brought to you by how much my back is currently killing me) so why not make a robot that is shaped like basically anything else?

(I mean you know the answer is slavery, right? It's always slavery.)

Anyway this episode is weirdly fun to listen to because we're talking about something that is basically impossible and can't replace people, vs. AI which is basically impossible but will replace people because of all the middle managers who've had frontal lobotomies.

Comments

[batdina]

FWIW, the middle manager sitting next to me says it's not the middle managers pushing AI, it's the executives. Based on what I've heard coming from her office, I tend to believe her.

[sabotabby]

That's likely true. There's just a certain cadence to middle manager emails and that's what ChatGPT has mastered.

[selki]

Unfortunately, middle managers at my company and at our client are pushing it hard (probably at the behest of the executives, but still). I'm a manager, and I don't ever push it on MY people, but my manager and his deputy manager have both told me to use it whenever I mention a documentation task I need to do (but it's organizing the internal info I need to put into shape that will take the most effort, which I'd have to do anyway). Including last week. And one of my 2 federal leads talks about it all the time, including directly contradicting us, the technical experts paid for by his agency, because "But ChatGPT says ...". ARGH. It's made my job aggravating the last 6 months, and it's only getting worse.

[brittdreams]

This is exactly what's been happening to me at work. Our division director keeps telling us that if we don't use AI to do (vague things), then we'll be left behind and out of a job.

[batdina]

that's pretty much what I hear from the office next to mine: she's frustrated because she's losing writers because her managers thinks AI can do their work. She doesn't want to, but often has to anyway.

in any event, AI is fucking over workers and we all know it except the ones with the checkbooks.

[rdi]

Isn’t that what’s motivating the ones with the chequebooks?

[batdina]

Almost certainly, yes. Though who they think are going to buy their crap at that point escapes me entirely.

ETA: which of course also means the middle level managers because once the people have no jobs, those managers have nothing to manage and they won't have money either. People with the checkbooks aren't thinking beyond the next stock split.

[thatjustwontbreak]

Ty for the rec!

[sabotabby]

Welcome!

[greylock]

Now that I know lots more about robots than I used to, I can tell you that humanoid is maybe the worst shape for a robot.

Not for a sexbot!

(I assume. IIRC, there was a lot of discussion of sexbots 5-6 years ago? And there was some tech bro who was big into the idea, but a quick search didn't turn anything up beyond AI bots and I don't care enough).

Also, counterpoint: C3PO. (I assume tech bros my era are trying to make Star Wars a reality, and younger tech bros are taking the wrong lessons from Gorman).

[sabotabby]

Imagine C3PO trying to cook or do laundry. It would be funny but he'd be slower and worse at it than you are.

Now imagine C3PO but he's a sexbot.

Until next time!

[greylock]

. It would be funny but he'd be slower and worse at it than you are

Well, obviously. He's Human-Cyborg relations. Once our laundry and kitchen systems are embedded with AI he'll be a wiz!

Now imagine C3PO but he's a sexbot.

Imagine? The 1970s already tried to give us anatomically-correct C3PO
https://melmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/C3PO_penis_card-copy.jpg

[sabotabby]

Nope nope nope

[greylock]

Someone hasn't seen This Ain't Star Wars: An XXX Parody.

(Actually, IIRC, that was the Chewbacca one. I used to love the trailers on YT. I doubt the movies lived up to the horrots therein._)

[rdi]

Wouldn’t Human-Cyborg Relations include being a sexbot?

[selki]

LOL I hadn't made that connection!

[rdi]

Honestly surprised that companies like RealDoll aren’t more heavily invested in robotics and AI.

[greylock]

I assume, given the costs of RealDolls (assuming they're still $2000-plus) and weight issues, they're waiting for the next leap in tech.

(My brain went to some dark places after this, so... )

[dagibbs]

One non-slavery argument for humanoid-form robots is that we have built our environment to be comfortably navigable and functional for humanoid-form (bipedal, two hands, etc) beings in about the 1.2m-2.1m height range. Any person/thing that does not fit this finds the world far far harder to navigate.

There are lots and lots of places where non-humaniform robots are used, and are best (production lines, for example), but if you want a robot to navigate the human living/working environment without having to re-build that environment to fit, then humaniform has advantages. (It, also, has difficulties... balance probably being the biggest one. Bipedal movement is inherently unstable, we're basically falling and catching ourselves whenever we move around.)

[sabotabby]

They mention this but there's still the bipedal movement issue. It'd be easier to have something on wheels with an arm and outfit your house with ramps. But there's a fundamental issue with household robots; too many tasks require both dexterity and the ability to learn and respond, and that's just so hard that it becomes cost-prohibitive.

[brittdreams]

(I mean you know the answer is slavery, right? It's always slavery.)
I'm sure people tell themselves it's plenty of other things but also they can't get over their desire to own and control others so..

[sabotabby]

There's a lot of justifications that go on but, uncomfortably, fewer than one would expect.

[brittdreams]

1000%

[frenzy]

I hear you, but did you see the robots at the lunar new year doing kung fu and flips and stuff because ngl i was in awe https://x.com/RnaudBertrand/status/2023606882116812924 (sorry to link to the hell site but its the only place i can just find the 4 mins of the dance without any fucking commentary)

[sabotabby]

I did see it, and it's very impressive! That said, kung fu and flips are apparently easier to design for than laundry. Go figure.

[rdi]

King-fu and flips are basically fancy moves that show off dexterity and stability.

Folding laundry requires separating garments from each other, identifying what type of garment each is, and folding each garment according to type and owner preferences. That’s something about 50% of humans can’t manage, so I wouldn’t expect to see robots handle it any time soon.