Collateral damage

[sabotabby]

Do you think we'll ever find out the names of the woman and child who were killed along with al-Zarqawi?

Comments

[dobrovolets.livejournal.com]

This is one of those moments when I wish I could read Arabic. If the names show up anywhere, it would likely first be in the local or regional press.

[sabotabby]

*bats eyes hopefully in the direction of Arabic-speakers on my friends list*

[caprinus.livejournal.com]

What will you do with them once you've got them?

[sabotabby]

The names and/or pictures? I just think people who are gleeful about al-Zarqawi's killing ought to have a bit of context and understand the cost of their "turning point."

[caprinus.livejournal.com]

Well, the people gleeful about this are unlikely to be given much pause by "Aysha El-Saudi age 34 and Selim Jr., age 7 were also among the dead", or whatever it'd be, with pictures or without. I agree it would be fair to the dead to at least be acknowledged by name; on the other hand, maybe it's better to keep their identities protected for the sake of their families? I mean, you start poking around, you end up with more questions: was the woman there voluntarily? -- makes her look bad (This presumes Wahhabist women have the agency to volunteer) Was she there by force? Makes al-Z look bad. Why did al-Z hide out somewhere were women and children would be exposed to the violence which he knew he might be targetted by at any point? Makes him look bad, again. I'm afraid I don't see any way that the details on the woman and child killed make the Americans look bad, sorry; and so, this will hardly give pause to the warhawks -- they're either al-Z's victims or his allies.

[sabotabby]

I wasn't so much thinking of warhawks; they're not the only ones cheering about this. I'm more about deconstructing the myth of surgical strikes and terrorist masterminds in isolated fortresses. The reason why civilians get killed by Americans is not because the terrorists are hiding behind children, but because America has invaded actual cities where people live.

I mean, this is obvious to anyone rational, but many Americans still seem to think that they went in to fight Saddam, and then al-Zarqawi.

[caprinus.livejournal.com]

Surgical strikes and precision killing with "bunker busters" (where bunker = family home, in this case?) -- that didn't even occur to me as a rationale. I'm amazed no civilians in nearby flattened homes were killed. That we know of, anyway.

I would disagree, though, with the assessment that the civilians are getting killed solely because invading armies have come into the citites. There is at least a feedback loop here. Who is "ultimately" to blame for innocent lives being taken presumes a prime mover instead of a chain of causes, often circular, but I am comfortable to saddle the responsibility for civilian deaths on the target of a reasonably expectable attack who knowingly chooses to live with/associate with/hide with civilians.

During the Warsaw Uprising, a quarter of a million of civilians were killed by the German army who massacred them to break the partisans' morale and used them as human shields -- that, to me, is the sort of gold standard of an invading army in urban combat which absolutely SHOULD be held accountable for civilian casualties. Much as I may dislike American policies, this particular attack really doesn't strike me as being of the same species. YMMV.

[sabotabby]

But the model of armies meeting on fields, or firing across trenches, hasn't existed in a good long time. So for me, the responsibility for dead civilians lies with the invader/occupier.

[caprinus.livejournal.com]

الاضرارالتامين

[sabotabby]

?

[caprinus.livejournal.com]

I tried to say "Collateral damage"
I think I said "Accident insurance"

Arabic puns: not my forte!

[sabotabby]

It's okay; the only slang I know in Arabic has to do with people's mothers.

[princessrugger.livejournal.com]

oh, you too?

[sabotabby]

That's what you get when you ask your friend to "teach me to say something cool in Arabic."

[princessrugger.livejournal.com]

it's also what you get when the only time you hear your dad speak arabic is when he's driving.

[gabski.livejournal.com]

what's another 2 when youve got 6,000 on your hands? ;)

[sabotabby]

They are brown so whatevs.

[gabski.livejournal.com]

and dont have access to oil fields...

[gabski.livejournal.com]

by the way... did you see my post today? about passing a bill to make it legal to racially profile people on the subways?

[sabotabby]

Just did. Ugh...but as someone pointed out, this has been practice for a long time.

I think a widespread hijab/yellow star protest would be awesome, though.

[sadie-sabot.livejournal.com]

Hey, what's the quote in your picture? It's super familiar to me but I can't...quite...get it.

[sabotabby]

It's from Billy Bragg's "Between the Wars."

[sadie-sabot.livejournal.com]

ah yes. thanks!

[terry-terrible.livejournal.com]

I'm sure the American media is refering to them as "Terrorist Lady" and "Terrorist Child".

[sabotabby]

I think they can just call them "human shields" or some such.