Let's give moody, hyperactive kittens chainsaws and catnip.

[sabotabby]

[fengi is hitting the comedy goldmine this week. Ah. This is going to be great, you guys. So great.

Because it's not funny enough that Yahoo bought Tumblr, now Amazon has plans to monetize fan fiction.



Discuss. Bonus points for digging up hilarious wank. — Sabs]

Originally posted by fengi at Let's give moody, hyperactive kittens chainsaws and catnip.

Amazon has decided to monetize fan fiction. Not fucking kidding:

Get ready for Kindle Worlds, a place for you to publish fan fiction inspired by popular books, shows, movies, comics, music, and games. With Kindle Worlds, you can write new stories based on featured Worlds, engage an audience of readers, and earn royalties. Amazon Publishing has secured licenses from Warner Bros. for Gossip Girl, Pretty Little Liars, and The Vampire Diaries, with licenses for more Worlds on the way.

I read about this in a post by author Jim Hines who offers soem intitial observations. Chuck Wendig does as well including a very interesting possibility:

The weird thing is what happens to that comfortable space that separated canonical from non-canonical. Like, one assumes that the fan-fic remains officially non-canonical — and yet, people are paying for it...it still grants it a kind of territory in the canonical space. Someone might read Book 3...and say, “But this doesn’t refer to that time when she time-traveled back to the Old West in that novella, Booby Nuthatch.” And you’re like, “That wasn’t real, though, someone else wrote that.” But then they say: “I PAID FOR IT SO IT FELT REAL TO ME”...That’s a pretty serious shift in authorship and authenticity.

For me, the interesting part is an aspiring oligarchy is injecting some "creative disruption" (i.e. greed and exploitation) into a scene which, to be polite, is slightly prone to hyperbolic reactions which at times involve distorted perceptions.



Is trying to cash in on the emo side of the net the new thing? I wonder what's next: Google purchases Encyclopedia Dramatica?

ETA: I made this point on fengi's post but I'll repeat it here:

I almost see this as a form of outsourcing. Authors have these pesky agents, after all, and wouldn't it be nicer if we could just get naïve amateurs to write our tie-in material? We don't even need to pay editors. People will do it for loooove. Toss the fanfic writers less than a pro would get paid, but more than they'd get paid if they were posting on ff.net; toss the authors a bone because copyright, and still more profits for Amazon.

It's an interesting model. I think publishing definitely does need a new model, and I'm vaguely in favour of anything that recognizes the inherently collective nature of creation, but I think this is going to fail miserably and hilariously. — Sabs

Comments

[agatharuncible.livejournal.com]

This whole thing sounds frankly ridiculous. It reminds me of when newspapers try to write articles about fanfiction and call it "a new trend" or attempt to explain it to a readership who is not familiar with it at all.

I think this is going to take author wank to a whole new level. Published fanfic authors are known for hilarious wank (I don't know the specifics, but I love reading drama about authors and their bffs trying to take down blogs with negative reviews) and self-published authors sometimes attract messy situations by trying to get bad amazon reviews taken down. Putting the two together sounds like a nightmare. I can't see this ending well.

The next logical step would be Google buying off popular fanfic sites. Then again, with tumblr being bought by Yahoo, everything is possible.

[sabotabby]

Jim Hines' post points out the proudly non-commercial tradition in fandom, and the possibility of a "culture war" between Amazon and their prospective customers/producers. I mean, as if Cassandra Clare and E.L. James didn't cause enough drama in the fanfic community by filing off the serial numbers and making a shitload of money.* This seems potentially even more explosive.

The next logical step would be Google buying off popular fanfic sites. Then again, with tumblr being bought by Yahoo, everything is possible.

I'm sure this will happen, if there's money to be found in it. I rather hope they don't get AO3 as I admire the folks who run it.

* I'm not sure this is as much of a sin as some people seem to think, but then I have very loose ideas around creator ownership. Most of the hilarity, for me at least, was how badly it was done.

[agatharuncible.livejournal.com]

I agree. People who ask for "donations" about fanfics tend to get funny looks from what I've seen. The drama about Cassandra Claire wasn't just that she tried to pass off her fanfiction as a completely original work, but the fact that she was involved in several fandom scandals. They included plagiarism, trying to get her followers to buy her a new laptop, and generally also being connected to other dramatic things. I also think it's because in both works, they've practically only just changed the names, but you could easily recognise them as a fanfic. I'm not very familiar with CC's work but excerpts of 50 Shades were posted on ONTD fairly often last year or so and it seemed obvious to me.

I also think this is a crap idea, because other than beta readers you don't really get professional editors to go through your fanfic and find mistakes. :/

I hope not either. I don't really read fanfic other than what my LJ friends post on their journals, but everyone I know online seems to really like AO3 and they have that Yuletide event. I've heard that FF.net is mostly dead now so hopefully they won't be down with the times and will just buy it instead.

[sabotabby]

Yeah, mainly sounds like CC is an awful person for other reasons, and no one is happy to see her make a lot of money.

I also think it's because in both works, they've practically only just changed the names, but you could easily recognise them as a fanfic.

Which I don't think is awful, per se. I mean, "naïve pure young girl meets powerful older man and turns him into a good person" isn't exactly an original plot. I can think of a few fics that I've read that, if someone filed off the serial numbers, would be totally publishable as original. It's just funny in this case because the fics in question are so terrible, and no one seems to have thought to edit them or anything.

[agatharuncible.livejournal.com]

Yes, with CC I think it's like 80% the other drama she's been involved with.

I can think of a few fics that I've read that, if someone filed off the serial numbers, would be totally publishable as original.

That's the thing, most fanfiction (even some good fics) aren't really up to very high standards. 50 Shades was technically publishable as an original enough that, well, it was, but everything about the excerpts I've read screams "bad fic" to me. If we were talking about an exceptionally good fic where the characters and plots were original enough to not be obviously copied from the original, and very good writing, maybe it would be less of an issue. Except most fanfiction isn't exactly like that -- there's less pressure to write something outstanding, because it's more "for fun" -- and in many circles the whole point is to also capture the characters well enough and make them sound like the original. I'm not saying that all fanfic is unoriginal or terrible, but let's face it, that's what 90% of fanfiction is like.

[sabotabby]

Yep. I don't think Amazon gets what fanfiction is for. It's not, for most people, training wheels for a career as an author; it's a bunch of folks telling each other stories, most of which are ephemeral, quite a bit of which are crap, to flesh out existing worldbuilding and relationships. There's a reason why, despite all the awesome literature out there, I'll still read the stuff on occasion—it's performing an entirely different function than published fiction.

Also, yes, most of it is terrible, which is part of the fun.

[agatharuncible.livejournal.com]

Exactly. As you say, people read and write fanfiction for fun. I can't count the number of times that people have given "waiting between installments of a show" or "missing the world a story was set in" as the reason why they are into fanfiction. Like how people who make mixes or graphics for a certain fandom aren't expected to get money for that. I don't doubt that there are people who do use fanfiction as training wheels to practice writing and get some feedback, just like how people may make fanart to improve their art techniques or graphics to learn how to use Photoshop better. I don't think there's anything wrong with that, but obviously, there's a difference between a story that was written informally and for fun and something that was intended as a publishable work from the outset.

Also, there are probably good fics out there (and when they're terrible, as you say, that's part of the fun) but I think it's a bit dodgy to publish it and make money from characters and settings that someone else put so much time and effort into creating. At least I can see some merits with this plan, which is the fact that at least they can openly credit the original work instead of pretending that it's totally not a Twilight fic, and the original creators have presumably authorised it.

[nihilistic-kid.livejournal.com]

In older days, fanfic was frequently for sale, at SF conventions. People would go to Kinko's and produce spiral-bound books of SENTINEL fanfic and other weird shit like that.

[sabotabby]

Oh right. I'd forgotten about that. My former roommate used to have an excellent spiral-bound collection of Star Trek porn that included a detailed, if improbably large, Klingon schlong, and one of the shortest bits of porn I'd ever read ("In his bucket, Odo undulated. The end.")

[cdaae.livejournal.com]

Yeah. I don't think there was anything weird about it... it was the only way to share fanfic, really. And it costs money to do all the photocopying so obviously people charged money to cover the costs.

But anyway. Fuck Kindle Worlds. My main objection is probably that it adds to the general impression that people should only write/be allowed to write/are only legally allowed to write fic when it's been licensed. Bugger that for a lark.

[nihilistic-kid.livejournal.com]

That people cared enough shows like the SENTINEL is weird enough.

[cdaae.livejournal.com]

Well, yes, true... I wonder if there's any TV show ever that no one's written fanfic about? But as soon as I think the thought, I'm afraid to pursue it.

[sabotabby]

There's a lack of Treme fic out there. Which is to say, three or so stories. I mention this because I don't watch that much TV, and therefore don't go looking for that much TV-based fanfic, but I did actually look for that. I can make all kinds of snarky suggestions as to why it doesn't exist.

[cdaae.livejournal.com]

I never found any Alexis Denisof/John Barrowman RPF, but that's kind a TV show, whatever my fantasies may try to claim.

[sabotabby]

This actually surprises me, but then again, besides you and I, I haven't encountered that many people who consider Alexis Denisof/Wesley all that attractive.

[kryss-labryn.livejournal.com]

Really? o_O Because he's really a very attractive man.Why wouldn't someone consider Alexis/Wesley hot? (Especially with the glasses, growr.)

[sabotabby]

I dunno. I only know that most of the porn in Buffyverse is not written about him. (Or Gunn.) Which makes little sense to me as he's much hotter than Angel or Xander.

[ironed_orchid]

Wesley/Gunn OTP

[sabotabby]

Right? Right. Well, at least up until they decided to do a stupid love triangle story.

[sabotabby]

I watched an episode of that once. I think the main point was that the two guys in it were fucking, right?

[nihilistic-kid.livejournal.com]

Yes.

Also, I only saw ten seconds of an episode. The main guy was tussling with someone, who grabbed his car keys, threw them into the bushes, and then ran into another car and drove away. So the main guy used his SENTINEL POWERS to find his car keys under a leaf and make chase.

[sabotabby]

Shit, I actually wish I could do that. It's a pretty useful superpower.

[nihilistic-kid.livejournal.com]

A very practical superpower, unless one is interested in beating up criminals!

[bitter-crimson.livejournal.com]

i'm w8ing for the inevitable ~plagiarism of free fic by someone writing for-pay fic~ wank

[sabotabby]

Shit, I hadn't even thought about that.

It will totally happen. Probably immediately, come to think of it.

[fengi.livejournal.com]

Oh my god. Of course.

[funnel101.livejournal.com]

Purely selfishly, if they ever approve Harry Potter fanfic, I have a 20k Severus-Draco-Hermione fic that I wouldn't mind making some money off of...

But in a way, fan fiction is already monetized. I mean, consider all the Star Trek and Star Wars novels. The only difference is that the new fan fiction is based off books and not movies.

[sabotabby]

Haha they said no porn.

I think there's a very blurry line between non-commercial fanfic and published work in many ways (not the least of which being whether it's okay to show one's co-workers/parents/children!) but it's a difference of degree more than anything else. Arguably, Ulysses and the complete works of Shakespeare are fanfic.

[marlowe1.livejournal.com]

No porn?

But who is going to buy fan fiction that doesn't involve Queen Helena Bonham Carter having sex with Garfield?

[sabotabby]

But who is going to buy fan fiction?

Fixed that for you.

[funnel101.livejournal.com]

... What's the point of fan fiction without porn???

[sabotabby]

I am not entirely sure. I'm sure such an animal exists, but I have not yet observed it in the wild.

(I jest, of course. Many of my kids are reading/posting to the Pit of Voles, and I rather hope that none of it is porn. Because I am a horribly naïve person. In my heart of hearts, I also believe that they're using spell check.)

[terry-terrible.livejournal.com]

Google purchases Encyclopedia Dramatica?

Too late, circa 2011 the main person behind ED (Girlvinyl) deleted ED and launched a commercial safe-for-work version called Oh teh Internet. ED later got revived by some other people involved in it as mirrored site.

[sabotabby]

[ironed_orchid]

Like everyone else I suspect they are trying to own the next 50 Shades sensation. Except for the bit where they banned porn.

cleolinda has a post whichaddresses it more from a fandom pov than a published writer pov (Although i guess technically she is both?).

[sabotabby]

As usual, she has excellent points.

I really have to get on writing a work of epic porn. Apparently that sells. Probably not the type of porn I write, though.

[kryss-labryn.livejournal.com]

I'm in the middle of a gender-bent f/f "Phantom of the Opera" porn-fic myself, lol. Leroux-iverse, for bonus points, ha ha. I started it mainly because there were complaints that all of the slash was m/m and that there wasn't nearly enough f/f; also because I was in a mood for hilarity. *Grin*

I really should get on with it, but I suddenly realized I completely forgot about one of the main characters needing to get to work the next morning, so I've kind of stalled on it because now I don't know whether I should assume no one else will notice, either, and just keep on with what I had planned (which smacks of bad and lazy writing to me); or if I should acknowledge that issue and work with it (which will kind of derail some of what I have already written, so I don't want to do that) or if I should just go back and rewrite the beginning so she isn't saying she's got work in the morning, which I also don't want to do, because I really like what I've already written. So I'm stuck.

Too bad about the no porn thing, because money is a great incentive for me, ha ha, but the thing is about 87% porn by volume. Some settling may occur during shipment, however.

Maybe I'll brush it off and see what I can do with it. I was going gang-busters with it until I realized we'd all forgotten about her working in the morning... *Facepalm*

[sabotabby]

Hah, I'd read the shit out of that.

[kryss-labryn.livejournal.com]

If you like I can email you what I've got so far. All 18 pages of it (so far). Haven't worked on it since we were in BC, wow. Been a while. I do so need to get it done, ha ha ha. It was so much fun to write...

Anyways, if you wanna see it, I'll send it over.

[sabotabby]

Hah, yes. I may even get a chance to read it if it's that short.