AI and Fanfic
Jan. 18th, 2025 01:48 pmNo one asked for this. No one likes it. No one wants it. It will make your life more annoying, not less.
The second least justifiable case* for the broad grouping of technologies called AI** is creative work—writing and art. It's already led to the mass firing of journalists, which, granted, was already happening because of capitalist consolidation. You will notice that the quality or availability of journalism has not improved! Hilariously, the economic case for this is also terrible, in that artists, writers, journalists, actors and voice actors, filmmakers, and animators already make no fucking money, and a request from an under-$200/month subscriber actually costs the companies money.*** (Is it moral to use ChatGPT to drive OpenAI out of business? Discuss.) Replacing or drowning out creative work with AI slop makes no one money and creates worse things that you have to wade through to find things made by humans.

Probable source.
And yet, there are a certain number of AI "artists" or "prompt engineers" who insist that I should take their little computer pictures seriously as if it was real art. Buddy, I do not take my pictures seriously and I drew them myself. They liken what they do to collage, or sometimes Pop Art. Unfortunately for them I studied Art History and they usually shut up real quick when I tell them that my prerequisite for discussing it is them reading the entire judgment in the Warhol Estate v. Goldsmith case.
(Incidentally, I disagree with the judgment, and the last people who should be defining fair use are the ghouls of the US Supreme Court. But it's an interesting case, and one that to my non-legal mind conclusively shows that all AI "art" is in violation of US copyright law.)
My moral argument against LLMs is:
1. The catastrophic environmental cost.
2. The intellectual property theft.
3. The economic consequences of job loss.
4. The world doesn't need more shitty art.
If these people knew anything about art at all, which they don't, they might bring up fanfic rather than Pop Art. After all, we're talking about transformative work, specifically of creative intellectual property. It got me thinking, in a tangential comment on one of
Because I think transformative work is good, actually. It's the main way we've had, for the entire history of humanity, to engage with story and art. The idea of a work being the sole property, for the purpose of sole profit, of the artist who created it is relatively new, and has to do with economic conditions far more than it has to do with an accurate description of the creative process.
Hence, I would pose the question: What is the difference between a fanfic of a piece of intellectual property (you can insert your own fandom here, the way [REDACTED] inserts their [REDACTED] in [REDACTED]'s [REDACTED])? After all, you are taking a thing that belongs to some other creator and making your own thing out of it.
This is where having a moral framework comes in handy.
1. Is there an environmental cost? No more than any regular activity you'd do on a computer. The energy difference between me writing this post, or my own books, and someone posting smut to AO3 is nonexistent. We all need to cut our energy use down but let's ground the private jets first, y'know?
2. Is it intellectual property theft? I would argue no, actually, and while this has been litigated a few times, people don't get sued for writing fanfic as a general rule. It's not, morally speaking, for the same reason that collage is not. No one is claiming that Hannah Höch photographed all of those magazine images she put in her collages; you are very obviously seeing found work that is repurposed, with intent, to create new meanings. Fanfic is the same—it can't exist without the acknowledgment of the authorship of the original canon. If the original canon suddenly disappeared, or was overshadowed by the fanfic, the meaning would be lost. The purpose of fanfic is to honour the original work, or subvert it, or deconstruct it; it is never to erase it.
3. It's the economic aspect that I find most interesting. Companies like OpenAI speak openly (hah) about crushing entire industries in order to somehow extract profit. Although, again, why they plan to do that with the arts, which are famously unprofitable, is beyond me. Blood from a stone. Fanfic, however, is a gift economy. That's why I call it a bright mirror. Paying for it would seem gauche; when fanwriters have tried to charge for their work, they're soundly mocked by a community of accidental anarchists.
In fact, this is a reason why fanfic writers aren't sued. Fanfic and fanart inevitably creates more income for the original creator. How many times have I checked out some show because someone has drawn an incredibly pretty, incredibly filthy illustration of the characters? A non-zero amount of times, I can tell you. If you ever write fanfic of my work I will love you forever.
4. Well, one can argue that a lot of fanfic is shitty. But because it's published, most of the time, through a parallel ecosystem, you don't actually have to wade through whatever the modern-day equivalent of My Immortal is to find an actual book. So the shitty stuff harms no one. Maybe the calculus shifts a bit with the publication of, say, Ali Hazelwood's stuff, but that's not my genre so I don't care.
Artistically, fanfic is communal and process-oriented, whereas AI slop is individualist and product-oriented. I can probably still go to AO3 and find something, within one or two clicks, that floats my boat. (Like I'd do that. I am a lazy asshole. I'd ask one of you, and you'd give me a recommendation.) To find something in the sea of slop that has any kind of artistic merit is impossible. Even if it did exist, and it doesn't, it'd be impossible to find. During one argument I had with an AI fanboy, he claimed to have rendered 100 images in the time it took for me to destroy his argument.† With one person creating that volume, how can anyone find anything?
It has never occurred to any of these people to turn to fanfic or fanart to improve on their skills. This is because they are genuinely uninterested in creative work. They don't want to be artists or writers; they want to claw themselves a little higher on the pyramid scheme, not understanding that they're the product no matter how hard they try.
It's actually because fanfic writers and fan artists exist that I have hope that the scourge of slop can be defeated. Creativity is so innate that it can thrive even in the absence of a profit motive, and for all its flaws, AO3 is an example of elegant, usable website architecture with safeguards built in against monetization. Even if everything goes wrong, we'll still be telling horny stories in the burned-out irradiated ruins, and I really love that for us.
* The worst use case for AI is anything having to do with war or police or surveillance, obviously. The immediate case for abolition is that this is used against Black and Brown people to kill them. For that reason alone, it's ethically justifiable to build a supervillain-sized magnet and take it to any data centre in your vicinity.
** To be clear, AI used to detect cancer is not the same as LLMs, and anyone trying to convince you of this doesn't want to cure cancer, they want to get every journalist fired so that the Nazi App is state media.
*** This is because capitalism does not in fact work the way they teach in business school, where companies are required to turn a profit. Companies like Uber run at a loss. Uber has never made money. It just drives the cabs out of business and defunds public transit, so you're now reliant on Uber and will eventually pay anything for the service.
† All of them looked like bad, slightly thirsty knockoffs of Coraline. This was a few weeks ago, so that aged like sour milk.
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Date: 2025-01-18 07:58 pm (UTC)In the end, I don't have a point here, but it's a different case study & kind of interesting since it involves maybe some crimes and also giffers are potentially monetized. (& it's less arguably transformative - no one goes after Botchamania because Maffew is clearly adding commentary. Also bc all the wrestlers love it)
(the flip side of this is the classic #lolTNA moment when the company's official pay-per-view stream went down and they treated out step-by-step instructions for how to access mirrors and torrent it)
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Date: 2025-01-18 08:28 pm (UTC)(I would assume it's the same as giffers of shows—companies will send you cease and desists for torrenting the show itself, but not for making gifs, 99% of which are generated from illegal torrents. Because the gifs, like the fanfic and fanart, are free advertising.)
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Date: 2025-01-18 08:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-18 08:56 pm (UTC)*
Date: 2025-01-18 08:05 pm (UTC)Te adoro. saves this rant
Re: *
Date: 2025-01-18 08:26 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-18 09:34 pm (UTC)https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/a-computer-can-never-be-held-accountable
which lead to the source:
https://bsky.app/profile/chrisdeleon.bsky.social/post/3lfdv6wk4xk2q
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Date: 2025-01-19 02:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-18 10:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-19 07:02 am (UTC)Oh I camee back to ask the same question
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Date: 2025-01-19 02:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-19 02:39 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-19 01:40 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-19 02:40 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-19 05:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-19 03:27 am (UTC)Oddly enough I’m not worried about environmental impact as much because Moore’s law and improvements plus the shift to renewables - I feel like this is a distraction akin to your personal carbon footprint. Creativity slop and bringing in AI recklessly to replace people where human judgement is needed absolutely. And where do you get the experience to feed both the AI and the human evaluator if you don’t have people doing the jobs to be replaced? It literally cannot replace the thing it is modelling because then it eats itself a this is NOT generalised intelligence but statistical mimicry which needs stuff to copy.
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Date: 2025-01-19 07:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-19 02:44 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-19 03:04 pm (UTC)(Sorry if incoherent; I've had two hours of sleep.)
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Date: 2025-01-19 03:06 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-19 02:44 pm (UTC)Musk hilariously talked about AI running out of things to steal and thus feeding on itself like it's a good thing, which is so funny to me since any actual programmer would know that this means model collapse.
I don't think renewables will save us from AI's environmental cost. Already, the Alberta government is shitting all over Indigenous sovereignty to build an AI data centre on Cree land without the consent of the Nation there. The appetite for more outpaces the investment in renewables (which also aren't ecologically friendly, as they require more violations of Indigenous sovereignty to mine).
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Date: 2025-01-19 10:14 pm (UTC)Also the fact that tech companies are willing to restart a closed nuclear reactor to power their data centers is a sign that they don't think current energy sources will be sufficient. They're also focusing on the "zero emissions" aspect of nuclear to avoid convo about actual renewable energy sources.
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Date: 2025-01-20 02:30 am (UTC)But no, instead we get the stupid "Please say what you are looking for, I don't understand" (which is because the company doesn't want to bother putting together a decent IVR which requires looking at call categories and some basic user testing and forgets that not everyone speaks with a flat american accent) and generated bullshit because the customer doesn't know the inside system so is trying to explain what they want with the wrong key words and no human to translate that and you wind up with people self-helping with absolutely no knowledge structure to guide them because people think outlines and processes emerge glistening from the muck rather than being mental frameworks developed to navigate and -
I am about to have this argument at work over my upcoming helpdesks and spending time walking people through this. At some point, people are going to realise that the reason we learned Dewy Decimal and the alphabet and all those other categorisation systems is not because our teachers were sadists but because learning how to categorise and link things is critical to understanding them and you can have two identical piles of things and organise them in entirely different ways which are both useful because IT MATTERS. We are in an ocean of information, and we're losing the craft of structuring and guiding ourselves through it.
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Date: 2025-01-20 12:09 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-20 03:49 pm (UTC)Don't mind me... just prophesying the AI apocalypse over here...
Date: 2025-01-19 08:57 am (UTC)THIS! I've been thinking this to myself for nearly a year now... Probably ever since I first saw lobster Jesus.
Sci-fi nerd that I am, I find a more compelling argument for abolition in the moral ambiguity of what constitutes a consciousness, and whether we're truly ready to become new gods and create a whole new category of souls capable of doing good and evil in new and unexpected ways.
Data and Lore are naturally my mental templates for this dichotomy.
In the real world, we all know the consequences of pretending that a whole subgroup of actual humans weren't actually real humans with souls. But if AI ever develops real consciousness, and furthermore, begins to experience suffering, we're cooked.
Re: Don't mind me... just prophesying the AI apocalypse over here...
Date: 2025-01-19 02:45 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-19 03:16 pm (UTC)(Sorry if I am not expressing myself clearly; still sick.)
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Date: 2025-01-19 03:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-19 03:33 pm (UTC)(Apologies - if I bow out of this discussion randomly in the middle, it's because I'm sick and have had to go lie down again. /o\ )
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Date: 2025-01-19 03:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-19 03:31 pm (UTC)https://www.informationweek.com/machine-learning-ai/how-ai-is-revolutionizing-prosthetics-to-refine-movement
Note: I know someone who has an amputee family member using a prosthetic limb of this general nature, although I haven't asked for more specifics since that would be, well. Medically/personally intrusive.
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Date: 2025-01-19 03:45 pm (UTC)(OTOH, climate change deniers - that's a humans humaning problem.)
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Date: 2025-01-19 03:55 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-19 03:57 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-19 10:13 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2025-01-19 10:15 pm (UTC)The world doesn't need more shitty art.
Date: 2025-01-19 10:41 pm (UTC)When it comes to shitty art as a commercial proposition, depriving already starving artists and other creative folks of even a modest livelihood, that of course is a whole different matter. And I'm actually happy to see someone introduce the "We should abolish it altogether" position into our heavily tech-normative contemporary discourse.
Re: The world doesn't need more shitty art.
Date: 2025-01-19 10:57 pm (UTC)And because "eh good enough" is enough for most people, we're flooded by content written in ChatGPT's voice. Maybe we're old enough to have read proper books by humans, but most young people haven't, and thus they will take "eh good enough" for how stories are supposed to be. Much the same as every blockbuster must be a hero's journey thanks to Joseph Campbell, every story written by a generation that grows up thinking ChatGPT is how to write will regress to "eh good enough."
And as someone who values creativity, I can't abide it.
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Date: 2025-01-20 12:32 am (UTC)Somewhat disagree on this part.
The world does need more shitty art... but none of the good in shitty art can come from automating the process. It is good when human beings make bad art because they love what they're making or the process of making it or are trying to improve their skills.
Commercialism and LLMs have a lot in common. A few years ago I noticed that that year's trend for Christmas decorations on sale in supermarkets (not used to decorate the store, just for customers to buy and display at home) was shabby chic/rustic/faux-handmade. Burlap with big, uneven yarn stitches, deliberately done to look like something a child made. Which might have been cute if the children who made them each made only one, for their own tree, or maybe one more for each of their living grandparents.
Somebody (it was long enough ago that I don't think the marketers were taking their orders directly from AIs yet) saw ornaments like that on Instagram or Pinterest and thought what people liked about those ornaments was how they looked, and that they would want to display them.
Marketers are human beings, and I don't think they are categorically so lacking in human nature that the idea that people might only want those ornaments because they had a direct, personal connection to the maker of the ornaments, never for a moment entered their heads. But if it did enter their heads, it was deemed irrelevant to what they were doing. Human connection is an externality.
See also: "natural-look" storage boxes made from plastic faked to look like cotton canvas or linen. They've identified a consumer demand, products made from natural materials, and missed what about that the consumers want or why they want it... because their whole way of doing business depends on missing that point.
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Date: 2025-01-20 01:30 am (UTC)When ChatGPT tries to write a story, it regresses to the most statistically average possibility. Which, generally imposes a Pixar structure and a moral lesson at the end, which generally involves the characters knowing that whatever comes their way next, they'll face it together. My concern is, as I said to
You raise a good point with the ornaments. Basically, Marketing Brain, and ChatGPT is Marketing Brain automated. "I predict you like this thing, and therefore I will give you more of the thing you like," without the cognition or empathy to know why. I first started noticing it with the trend towards environmentally friendly products. There was a certain shade of green that marketers started using, and then every single company, with no government regulations on something like a colour, or the word "green" or a picture of a leaf, started imitating that branding, regardless of what the product was.