This site is highly offensive and should not be viewed by anyone

[sabotabby]

This is in deeply poor taste, and yet, I'm still laughing about it.

Mission Statement
The Fuck Tibet movement is dedicated to not giving a rat’s ass about Tibet, its vibrant people, and its rich culture. The group seeks to Fuck Tibet through various means including not attending annoying protests, not starting pointless petitions, and intentionally purchasing Chinese products.

The movement and its website are currently owned by CRA Industrial Smoothing, a shell company owned by the Chinese government. It is operated and maintained by Vice Minister Liu of the Central Committee of the CPC. For more information, please read our history page.

In penance for posting this at all, I offer a petition that you can sign.

Hat tip: apperception, who is a bad influence.

---

In other News of the Wrong, the Antichrist is gay and part Jewish. You know who else was gay and part Jewish? Hitler.

Comments

[pope-guilty.livejournal.com]

I'm always conflicted about the whole Tibet thing. On the one hand, fuck China. On the other hand, fuck brutal theocracies.

[sabotabby]

Occupation is wrong. Iran's a brutal theocracy but that doesn't give Americans the right to invade it.

[pope-guilty.livejournal.com]

I'm not really down with the notion that national sovereignty is a valid cover (or a valid concept on its own, I guess) for massive human rights abuses, so I don't really care one way or the other. As far as I'm concerned, which government is doing the torturing and the brutalising is pretty much a moot point- there's torturing and brutalising going on, and getting the Chinese out accomplishes... what, exactly? Delivering the country back into the hands of its government in exile? Is there some idea that international pressure and attention will magically make them better people? 'Cause it didn't before the invasion, and it sure isn't having an impact on the Chinese.

[eyelidlessness.livejournal.com]

"getting the Chinese out accomplishes... what, exactly? Delivering the country back into the hands of its government in exile?"

I'm not sure how you can know that'd happen. And even so, it's clear you don't understand the workings and ramifications of national oppression and colonization. Absent decolonization, what possible avenue for liberation is available to Tibetans (or any other colonized nation)?

[pope-guilty.livejournal.com]

I like how I've written "I'm conflicted" and you've read "I support the Chinese government in any way whatsoever"; it's that adorable kind of complete failure of reading comprehension that characterises enthusiasts of any hobby, be it stamp collecting, role-playing games, or asking tyrants and oppressors to not be jerks.

I'm unconvinced that getting the Chinese out is going to make a difference to anyone but the ruling elites who will inherit Tibet once/if China leaves. Given that the current leaders of the Free Tibet movement are essentially the government in exile, I'm also unconvinced that if/when China withdraws, there will be some kind of magical blossoming of liberty and empowerment; the decolonisation of Africa over the last century and the collapse of the Soviet Union in 1991 suggests that decolonialisation is not a silver bullet.

I'm well aware of the damage inflicted by colonisation and national oppression; I'm not a supporter of either, and I'm certainly not the supporter of the Chinese occupation that you so desperately want me to be. I'm just sick of hearing the Dalai fucking Lama and his cohort being the face of the "Free Tibet" movement- as if being oppressed by your own country was somehow better than being oppressed by foreigners.

[eyelidlessness.livejournal.com]

'I like how I've written "I'm conflicted" and you've read "I support the Chinese government in any way whatsoever"'

I didn't get that out of what you wrote at all.

"I'm unconvinced that getting the Chinese out is going to make a difference"

In and of itself? Of course not. That's not the point. Unless you can explain how TIbetans can address that or any of the other issues facing them while remaining colonized, I'm not sure how you can think there's anything to be conflicted about when it comes to the occupation of Tibet by China.

[pope-guilty.livejournal.com]

I'm skeptical of the claim that they'll be able to address their issues even after losing the Chinese.

There's also futility to consider; what force short of killing everyone in the Chinese government is going to get China out of Tibet? So far all I see the Free Tibet movement doing is protesting, which is pretty much the opposite of action. Why aren't they organising to run guns into Tibet to arm a resistance?

[eyelidlessness.livejournal.com]

"I'm skeptical of the claim that they'll be able to address their issues even after losing the Chinese."

Wait, no. Answer the question. How can Tibet remain colonized and liberate itself?

"what force short of killing everyone in the Chinese government is going to get China out of Tibet?"

Well, I can't really say as I honestly don't know what it'd take, but more powerful governments have been defeated with much of the human element of the governments intact.

"So far all I see the Free Tibet movement doing is protesting, which is pretty much the opposite of action. Why aren't they organising to run guns into Tibet to arm a resistance?"

If by "the Free Tibet movement" you mean the Western "solidarity" movement, I'm not prepared to defend them and I don't see how their activity is relevant at all to the discussion of whether being conflicted about the Chinese occupation of TIbet is a reasonable response to the problems with its long-exiled, increasingly unpopular and irrelevant royalty.

But are you seriously suggesting "running guns" as a strategically responsible, remotely effective tactic of solidarity activists in this situation, or as the presumed alternative to attending meaningless protests and rock concerts?

[pope-guilty.livejournal.com]

Wait, no. Answer the question. How can Tibet remain colonized and liberate itself?

Again, I think it's an irrelevant question, since I don't believe that liberation will occur with decolonisation, either.

being conflicted about the Chinese occupation of TIbet

Woah, woah, woah, I am not conflicted about the occupation; I'm against imperialism. The conflict for me is between the Chinese and the individuals who I see taking over Tibet if/when the Chinese leave. I am skeptical of your description of Tibet's government-in-exile as "increasingly unpopular and irrelevant".

But are you seriously suggesting "running guns" as a strategically responsible, remotely effective tactic of solidarity activists in this situation, or as the presumed alternative to attending meaningless protests and rock concerts?

I don't see a better thing to do, given the situation. What would you suggest? More useless posturing? More "putting international pressure" on China, as if imperialist governments give a shit what anyone else thinks? Imperialism is defeated by force alone; I don't see anything but assisting the Tibet resistance in applying force to the Chinese occupiers as being useful.

[eyelidlessness.livejournal.com]

"Again, I think it's an irrelevant question, since I don't believe that liberation will occur with decolonisation, either."

This is fucking ridiculous. You are saying that Tibetans have no better chance of liberating themselves, looking into the distant future, absent Chinese colonization than with it? And that, therefore, makes asking how a colonized nation can liberate itself an irrelevant question?

"The conflict for me is between the Chinese and the individuals who I see taking over Tibet if/when the Chinese leave."

So you're conflicted about whether you'd rather they be colonized or not? I mean, since you've decided that it's an inevitability that the exiled leadership would return to power...

'I am skeptical of your description of Tibet's government-in-exile as "increasingly unpopular and irrelevant".'

That was an incidental, unimportant aside as far as my point is concerned.

"I don't see a better thing to do, given the situation."

Well, if they can't liberate themselves and they're permanently doomed to either colonization or theocracy, I don't see how you think running guns would serve any purpose besides getting yourself seriously thrown in [military?] prison.

"What would you suggest? More useless posturing?"

Well, you're obviously not interested in a discussion anyway. I've already expressed my feelings towards the Western solidarity movement. If you feel the need to go after this straw man in questioning my position, there isn't anywhere positive for this discussion to go.

For the record, given the relationship the US has with China, I'm not sure that there's any leverage at all for US citizens to use against China. Apart from concurrently withdrawing support for the Chinese economy and the exiled Tibetan leadership, there isn't much of anything we can do in our current position. No, I don't think running guns is a viable or responsible option—nor one that Tibetans are asking for as a form of support.

[eyelidlessness.livejournal.com]

I meant to expand on this: more powerful governments have been defeated with much of the human element of the governments intact.

If you think that national liberation is or has ever been achieved by surgically removing actual state officials, I have to wonder about your familiarity with any successful liberation movement.* Usually decolonization is something that happens after massive military losses (which aren't suffered by political leaders but by the most socially manipulable in the oppressor society) such that the military cannot or will not continue to occupy.

* Incidentally, I'm sure you could rattle off a few such movements, and I'm curious if you could find any where those liberating themselves were sufficiently politically pure to warrant your support.

[pope-guilty.livejournal.com]

Usually decolonization is something that happens after massive military losses (which aren't suffered by political leaders but by the most socially manipulable in the oppressor society) such that the military cannot or will not continue to occupy.

I include the military when I refer to the government; perhaps that's a mistake.

[eyelidlessness.livejournal.com]

You include "those who aren't political leaders but the most socially manipulable in the oppressor society" in the government? Yes, that's a mistake.

[pope-guilty.livejournal.com]

I mean, a movement to push out the Chinese and create an actual society based around empowering the people, I'd be nine kinds of down with that. It's the current Free Tibet movement, which is largely tangled up with the remnants of the old theocracy, that bugs me.

[dmlaenker.livejournal.com]

I tend to see the aforementioned "Free Tibet" movement as some kind of Buddhist hippie zionism of sorts, and generally refer to it as such.

(This'd be the "little-z" definition of "zionism", here meaning any kind of religious nationalism involving projection of a "holy land" onto a region by outside groups.)

[queerasmoi.livejournal.com]

I think, overall, occupation hinders a society's ability to develop its own values and to progress by them. We have no way of honestly knowing what transformations an independent Tibet could have made in the past half-century. Perhaps a modern reading of Buddhism would have created a benevolent theocracy, or a religious democracy, or a secular society inspired by Buddhist values. Or maybe today's global reading of Buddhism would be far more brutal.

As Persepolis taught us, Iran's a brutal theocracy originating in a revolution that, perhaps, they were not ready for. There will certainly be another when the country is ready, and probably the least bloody thing the rest of the world can do is be ready to aid innocent people.

I'd say that Tibet needs the opportunity for self-determination, even if they "epic fail" at first. We can probably help them fail less epically.

[eyelidlessness.livejournal.com]

If that's a basis for conflicted thought for you about the issue of China's occupation of Tibet, you're a moron.

[pope-guilty.livejournal.com]

Ooooh, argument by assertion! King of arguments!

[eyelidlessness.livejournal.com]

LOL if you want to have a debate, we can have it. But don't mistake a statement like that for an argument.

[pope-guilty.livejournal.com]

Oh, nah, I do the same thing sometimes.

Idiot: "[stupid argument]."
Me: "You're a dumbass."
Idiot: "That's ad hominem and not a good argument."
Me: "I'm not arguing with you, I'm calling you stupid."

So yeah.

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

How come things that are always in the poorest of taste manage to flip over into parody and become the funniest?

Adolf; low self esteem gone so very, very wrong.
And why, or why does the Israeli government accept money from people who are waiting for it to go all Armageddony?!

[sabotabby]

I honestly can't tell whether it's supposed to be parody or not.

Did you see this?

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

That boy is a moron, seriously, I feel sorry for him.

One of head Rabbis of Israel once said that Hitler killed Europes Jews because they assimilated too much and had lost the faith and thus God sent Hitler to kill them.
Same thing as Hagee, blind faith makes you morally bankrupt. Didn't we have this discussion?

[misfitina.livejournal.com]

ah, juvenile "punk" humor.

[sabotabby]

Undoubtedly.

[peterbilt-47.livejournal.com]

Oh, God, that site is fucking hilarious. And apparently I'm already totally consigned to burning in hell, because I didn't find it that much ruder than most of the horrendous shit I find funny.

[gillen.livejournal.com]

What Tibet needs is the same thing China needs - a Communist revolution.

Free Tibet, yes - from both the capitalists and the lie of religion.

[squirtlle.livejournal.com]

sharon stone , what?

[joanofarq.livejournal.com]

Don't apologize for posting Tibet Sucks or Tibet Fucks or whatever that was.

Poor taste is fine as long as it is also funny, which this was.

: : : still LMAO: : : : : :

[eyelidlessness.livejournal.com]

Well, I think it's funny, but presumably not for the same reasons the site creators do.

[sabotabby]

I'm still trying to figure out who their intended target is.

[eyelidlessness.livejournal.com]

Hipsters?

[sabotabby]

If so, I wholeheartedly approve.

[eyelidlessness.livejournal.com]

Also I'm sorry for instigating a dumb argument in your journal.

[sabotabby]

What, no! I only post these things so people will argue about them.

[eyelidlessness.livejournal.com]

LOL