Date: 2010-02-25 01:37 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shelestel.livejournal.com
Did I say there was one?

I've mentioned this before, but in the middle ages in Christian Europe if it was thought that the mother was at serious risk during giving birth, there was a practice of drilling into the baby's skull and later extracting it by parts. Apparently, medieval Europe had its share of moderates.

I'm saying that in order to reach a compromise people should have frameworks that allow for it. Your framework does not. I don't think you are particularly concerned with a compromise, either. You tend to be, in theory, a my way or the highway type of person. In real life of course you are abnormally compliant. I think there might be a compensation issue there.

Date: 2010-02-25 01:53 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shelestel.livejournal.com
Some people are worth more as gender-neutral humans than they are as gendered subjects. For others it is the other way around. I don't want society to be dominated by either.

Date: 2010-02-25 02:00 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shelestel.livejournal.com
I don't understand what you are trying to say.

Date: 2010-02-25 03:07 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] shelestel.livejournal.com
I think that the gains made by women are not only perceived as a loss, but de facto are in some cases. Overall, I tend to think the influence of feminism on society has been positive, but it doesn't mean some men did not actually lose some power in the process, and it doesn't mean some women could not be relatively better without it. I, for example, happen to know quite a number of men who turn to third-world countries in search for women who are easier to deal with. I don't know if this is a result of western women having higher demands or whether it has always been more or less this way. I also know many intelligent women who wish they didn't have to work so much. It doesn't mean that going back to the good old times is possible or desirable. It just means life is complicated, and the tendency to ignore this is... well, complicated too, I guess.

But what I was initially saying is that for some men and women, being taken as men and women is preferable to being perceived as civil subjects. Pretty women and masculine men can, though obviously don't have to, fall into this category. For a fat programmer guy, of course, being judged by his compliance to the masculine ideal is anathema. In reality, of course, people are judged by both, but I think the dichotomy is useful. In particular, a desirable woman with access to resources (perhaps those of a man) may very much cherish her femininity in the traditional sense - and this depends on the desires of men -, while other women to whom womanhood as such gives little advantage may stress the civil aspects of life and the importance of treating women as humans first and women second. Apropos, there are indications that men's preferences in partner selection are shifting towards giving more weight than before to finances and less to looks.

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