podcast friday
Mar. 10th, 2023 07:27 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sabotabby This was another week where it's a toss-up as to which podcast I'll post about. I have really been enjoying the 6-part (!!!!) Illuminati series on Bastards, but I haven't listened to yesterday's finale yet. So you're getting something older and shorter.
Internet Hate Machine is an excellent podcast by Bridget Todd that looks at the way internet attacks against marginalized people, particularly Black women, are the template upon which our present political hellscape is designed. It's insightful, brilliantly researched, and sometimes funny when it isn't busy being fucking horrifying. My podcast rotation is pretty heavy so I'm slowly going through it in chronological order.
The episode I'm highlighting today is "Leslie Jones: How Milo Yiannopoulous Weaponized a Ghostbusters Remake." It features Prop (yay!) and talks about how the criticism of a silly comedy about ghosts turned into a targeted assault against comedian Leslie Jones, fundamentally altering Twitter discourse and mobilizing angry white men to vote for Trump.
This is one of those stories that I feel is recent and is actually from the Before Times, when we didn't realize how bad everything was going to get. But then, I feel like Sad Puppies and GamerGate were also recent and both were awhile ago too. Milo has since fallen victim to the face-eating leopards of his movement in a stunning reenactment of Night of the Long Knives, so. Oh well. But alas, the hatred that he spawned lives on.
I remember at the time watching that harassment unfold in real time and seeing a continuity from Sad Puppies to GamerGate to Ghostbusters and realizing that, "oh fuck oh fuck, this is going to be a problem." And guess what, it was! The harassment of Black women in online spaces is a primary organizing tool for the far right. It's easy to trivialize, and I'm guilty of that reaction myself. I am an adult woman; I shouldn't have to know or care about things like Ghostbusters or video games because those are entertainment for children, but it's that very triviality that makes these these situations so dangerous. Serious people who care about material conditions have a tendency to ignore online culture war bullshit until it's too late.
This podcast is from November so it's pre-Hogwarts Legacy, but it's worth listening to and extending the pattern to the way children's media has been once again weaponized by the far right, this time as propaganda and harassment against trans people and Jews. Again, everything I've learned about the stupid wizard game has been against my will, but it's a good example of how the template established by misogynoir gets extended to other groups (including, in this case, my own). The point that Bridget makes so cogently in this episode and throughout the podcast is that we ignore the targeting of Black women at our own peril.
Internet Hate Machine is an excellent podcast by Bridget Todd that looks at the way internet attacks against marginalized people, particularly Black women, are the template upon which our present political hellscape is designed. It's insightful, brilliantly researched, and sometimes funny when it isn't busy being fucking horrifying. My podcast rotation is pretty heavy so I'm slowly going through it in chronological order.
The episode I'm highlighting today is "Leslie Jones: How Milo Yiannopoulous Weaponized a Ghostbusters Remake." It features Prop (yay!) and talks about how the criticism of a silly comedy about ghosts turned into a targeted assault against comedian Leslie Jones, fundamentally altering Twitter discourse and mobilizing angry white men to vote for Trump.
This is one of those stories that I feel is recent and is actually from the Before Times, when we didn't realize how bad everything was going to get. But then, I feel like Sad Puppies and GamerGate were also recent and both were awhile ago too. Milo has since fallen victim to the face-eating leopards of his movement in a stunning reenactment of Night of the Long Knives, so. Oh well. But alas, the hatred that he spawned lives on.
I remember at the time watching that harassment unfold in real time and seeing a continuity from Sad Puppies to GamerGate to Ghostbusters and realizing that, "oh fuck oh fuck, this is going to be a problem." And guess what, it was! The harassment of Black women in online spaces is a primary organizing tool for the far right. It's easy to trivialize, and I'm guilty of that reaction myself. I am an adult woman; I shouldn't have to know or care about things like Ghostbusters or video games because those are entertainment for children, but it's that very triviality that makes these these situations so dangerous. Serious people who care about material conditions have a tendency to ignore online culture war bullshit until it's too late.
This podcast is from November so it's pre-Hogwarts Legacy, but it's worth listening to and extending the pattern to the way children's media has been once again weaponized by the far right, this time as propaganda and harassment against trans people and Jews. Again, everything I've learned about the stupid wizard game has been against my will, but it's a good example of how the template established by misogynoir gets extended to other groups (including, in this case, my own). The point that Bridget makes so cogently in this episode and throughout the podcast is that we ignore the targeting of Black women at our own peril.
no subject
Date: 2023-03-10 03:04 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-03-10 09:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-03-10 03:34 pm (UTC)It reminds me of how many men who do mass-shootings of strangers had prior histories of domestic violence against a partner or family member that were shrugged off by the police.
Someone did an analysis and pointed out that (in addition to the fact that humans deserve to be safe from domestic violence), the police/the law taking domestic violence seriously = people being less able to go onto spree shootings or driving their car through a crowd later.
no subject
Date: 2023-03-10 09:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-03-10 09:32 pm (UTC)I would love to see any police with a domestic violence conviction against them fired and never re-hired
no subject
Date: 2023-03-10 05:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-03-10 09:22 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-03-10 11:19 pm (UTC)*
Date: 2023-03-10 06:49 pm (UTC)I keep wondering why the free speech of bigots to hate on Black women is more important than the ability of Black women to freely exist in public. Why is the free speech of transphobes more important than the ability of trans people to live their lives, why is "entertainment" built on antisemitism more important than Jewish people being able to live their lives, and so on.
Re: *
Date: 2023-03-10 09:05 pm (UTC)I keep wondering why the free speech of bigots to hate on Black women is more important than the ability of Black women to freely exist in public. Why is the free speech of transphobes more important than the ability of trans people to live their lives, why is "entertainment" built on antisemitism more important than Jewish people being able to live their lives, and so on.
Yes, this, a million times this.
no subject
Date: 2023-03-10 11:19 pm (UTC)Speaking of which, I haven't started listening to it yet, but Lagalisse has a new podcast out, Politics After the Pandemic:
https://thesociologicalreview.org/podcasts/politics-after-the-pandemic/
While it doesn't seem to be about conspiracy theories, it's co-hosted with another conspiracy nut, so who knows?
no subject
Date: 2023-03-10 11:25 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-03-10 11:42 pm (UTC)How does one counter it, is the question?
no subject
Date: 2023-03-10 11:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-03-11 10:57 am (UTC)"Leslie Jones: How Milo Yiannopoulous Weaponized a Ghostbusters Remake."
Oh, I saw this in real-ish time. Never had so much hate been directed as such a tepid movie, and yet it's so fascinating. I had never heard of Leslie before this, and I haven't heard much of her since.
Milo I believe has been saved from being a gay pedo, and is now a Good Catholic, as a campaign adviser for DeSantis? Or someone horrific.
I shouldn't have to know or care about things like Ghostbusters or video games because those are entertainment for children
I feel that's a bad take. It's yucking someone's yum, as the kids said 20 years ago.
In know what you mean to say, but even back when I saw GB at the cinemas (with my 7yo sister) that film was not aimed at kids. And video games are huge business. I don't understand it, but they are.
Video games are a big deal. I don't get it (I used to, but it's been years since I enjoyed one). And the original Ghostbusters is beloved, and is a great film. I'm not a fan of the other three.
But, I am a srs person, and I was still able to ignore Gamergate for a long time! (I did, early on see one of the posts by some dude who was convinced his GF was cheating on him, and while I don't recall any of the details, I think it was the spark?). but Gamergate kept fuzzying at the edges of my perception.
And then... there was the Puppies. Which has had a legacy I doubt they intended.
If it helps, Rowling's killing her own legacy with the Fantastic Beasts movies.
It's a pity, her books were great, and warned against the dangers of fascism and purity.
Or, that's what I remember).
no subject
Date: 2023-03-11 02:52 pm (UTC)She was famous for Saturday Night Live, a show which I have not watched since the early 90s. And she was apparently a Twitter celebrity, which I also didn't know because back then I only used my Twitter account to report Nazis. Since then I think she's had to retreat from public life because she can't do anything without a ton of racial and sexual harassment.
I feel that's a bad take. It's yucking someone's yum, as the kids said 20 years ago.
Yup, I'm fine with yucking someone's yum. The older I get, the more I feel like it is my right and privilege to develop a few cranky old man yelling at clouds opinions, and this is one of them:
There is nothing at all wrong with enjoying children's media. Lots of people do. I do, sometimes. But there is some value, socially, in it being a bit cringe. It was better when adults read Harry Potter with special edition book covers because they didn't want to be spotted reading a children's book on the subway. And basing one's identity around being a consumer (vs. a producer) of children's media, as an adult, is massively cringe and speaks to something fundamentally broken in the political economy of our generation that we need to retreat into the type of entertainment where the moral of the story is frequently spelled out at the end, in case the audience doesn't get it.
Video games are a big deal, and they are Art produce by teams of artists, who I have the utmost respect for. There are certainly skilled game players who I care about about as much as I care about skilled basketball players. I personally enjoy TTRPGs but listening to someone talk about the game they played is about as interesting as hearing someone recount a dream they had or an LSD trip they went on. It's something one should be talking to your friends about, not using it to form your identity or politics. Let alone harassing or SWATting people over.
I'm all about bringing shame and embarrassment back into the political discourse and it starts with shit like GamerGate, which was adult white men acting like spoiled children because they were led to believe that some big mother figure was going to take their toys away. Or Ghostbusters, which was a fun silly movie series that I enjoyed (including the reboot, which was cute), but not high art and not worth having any sort of major discourse about. If people took a moment to reflect on things like "oh shit, I am destroying someone's life because I don't like that there are women in a remake of a mediocre 80s comedy, I should maybe re-evaluate my priorities," we would be in a much better place.
no subject
Date: 2023-03-12 12:42 pm (UTC)SNL isn't a think here, so much so I had no real idea what a deal it was until I watched the National Lampoons docco a few tears back and.. suddenly all these films and people were connected!
I'm fine with yucking someone's yum. The older I get, the more I feel like it is my right and privilege to develop a few cranky old man yelling at clouds opinions, and this is one of them
Look, as an old man who is currently yelling at clouds (apparently Ed Sheeran, popular troupador) is playing near my house, but it felt oddly off vibe. But... you explained it well.
It was better when adults read Harry Potter with special edition book covers because they didn't want to be spotted reading a children's book on the subway.
Not an issue I faced.
basing one's identity around being a consumer (vs. a producer) of children's media,
Oh, I have a friend whose identify is Cure/Disney. I find it odd. I try not to make media my identity, I probably fail,
I personally enjoy TTRPGs but listening to someone talk about the game they played is about as interesting as hearing someone recount a dream they had or an LSD trip they went on.
Oooof. I feel that.
Or Ghostbusters, which was a fun silly movie series that I enjoyed (including the reboot, which was cute), but not high art and not worth having any sort of major discourse about
The reboot was not great. Kate was great. But it was a forgettable film. But so was Afterlife.
But I agree, the internet has made every discourse worse.
no subject
Date: 2023-03-12 03:28 pm (UTC)Anyway, Ghostbusters But With Girls was fun, I saw it twice to piss off the haters, and I don't remember anything about it other than Kate was hot. But you couldn't just critique it on its own merits or lack thereof.
no subject
Date: 2023-03-15 01:58 pm (UTC)Youtube exists.
Cure live is... either amazing or journeymen. Usually the latter.
But you couldn't just critique it on its own merits or lack thereof.
Not when you brand it. For me, the worst bits were the lazy bits.
no subject
Date: 2023-03-11 05:58 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2023-03-11 06:33 pm (UTC)