Plus ça change...
Jul. 26th, 2006 10:14 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
sabotabby(I already said this in a comment to ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
reverendgraham. But.)
The leader of Iraq is hostile to U.S. interests. I guess America had better invade and depose him...oh, wait.
reverendgraham. But.)The leader of Iraq is hostile to U.S. interests. I guess America had better invade and depose him...oh, wait.
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Date: 2006-07-26 02:45 pm (UTC)and dude... poor malaki... what is he supposed to do? he's already seen as the biggest puppet in the region... at least give him this one, ya know?
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Date: 2006-07-26 03:47 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-26 04:25 pm (UTC)what do you think would happen if the US left? to my understanding the Iraqi government, if you can call a few people trapped in a fortified compound a government, isnt very well armed or trained.
im desperately hoping for a change of thinking in the US in '08 but im skeptical. 1. im skeptical that the republicans wont hijack the election and 2. and im afraid that all the redtape (house of reps, senate, etc) will make it hard for a democrat if they get in.
man, and what are our options???
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Date: 2006-07-26 04:44 pm (UTC)Well, I don't think that the current government stands much of a chance, but it's pretty multipartite, if two of the three partners try to maintain it, maybe it could hold. But if it doesn't, then individual factions would split the country in different parts and who knows where that would lead. But anyway, there's already over 100 people who die everyday in bombings. In most countries, that would be called a civil war. So if we're afraid of civil war, well, it's too late, it's already there. And it's only been getting worse, worse, worse. This occupation is over. It just depends on how many more soldiers the U.S. are ready to lose, and how much money they still want to pump uselessly into halliburton and co.
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Date: 2006-07-26 05:13 pm (UTC)i know senator joe biden talks a lot about splitting the country according to different sects... like (i believe) happened in yugoslavia (bosnia?) my eastern european war history is shaky... anyways... i dont know if that is an option... i do like Biden though. i think he means well... whether his ideas would be successful or not, i dont know.
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Date: 2006-07-26 05:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-26 05:30 pm (UTC)Exactly! But it will NOT. HAPPEN. The United States did that once and that was called the Marshall Plan, which incidentally stimulated the American economy enormously because everything was pretty much bought from the U.S. No U.S. government, Republican or Democrat, will give Iraq a Marshall Plan, and that's why they need to move out.
I mean, the war has cost $400bn right now, mostly in occupation costs, possibly more than the Marshall Plan itself cost, and this is only in one country. It should be quite clear that this was not in the cards.
So it's not a question of whether it's feasable or not. It was feasable, and if there was a major overhaul of both the players and the thinking in the U.S. government, policy and public opinion, it could be possible even today. But these things will not happen. Crucial errors like disbanding the Iraqi civilian government and army are hardly reversible.
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Date: 2006-07-26 05:30 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-26 07:13 pm (UTC)if only bush didnt bankrupt everything he touched. man, i mean a baseball team is one thing.. a country is another.
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Date: 2006-07-26 07:36 pm (UTC)We have international laws for this kind of behaviour from Bush; a conviction on Crimes against Humanity shouldn't be too hard to achieve, should there be a tribunal with the power to prosecute and punish the United States. But the only people ever prosecuted are the losers, not the winners.
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Date: 2006-07-26 07:36 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-26 07:51 pm (UTC)i just finished the book COLOSSUS (spelling?) it was very interesting. it was about america being an empire but americans refusing to admit it...
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Date: 2006-07-26 09:32 pm (UTC)http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/07234B82-C3F3-4F27-B401-8BC50A43F541.htm
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Date: 2006-07-26 10:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2006-07-27 12:13 am (UTC)For christ's sake his ruling coalition includes the SCIRI and Muqtada's al-Sadr's party.Expecting him to denounce Hizbollah would be Bush to denounce the Israeli government or Tony Blair. Hizbollah are his friends or atelast idealogical fellow travelers.
But this is also very revealing in the US government's "do what I say" attitude to the "freely elected" Iraqi government. But that is to be expected by now I suppose.
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Date: 2006-07-27 12:18 am (UTC)>>>>>> I agree with you on that point. But I suspect that given the existence of what amount to be a civil war there now, maybe Iran's protection or aid might look attractive to Shia now that thier fighting the Sunni. After all, most Shia clergy and intellegenisa went into exile in Iran after Saddam and developed close links with the regime there.
What do you think?
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Date: 2006-07-27 02:42 pm (UTC)If Ahmadinejad then starts having sights on the Shia part of the KSA though, then that doesn't really help stability in the region.
Although I must say, should the U.S. pull out, I wonder how much civil warfare would remain. I have the impression that a lot of the elements behind it right now have more interests in creating instability to chase the U.S. away than really killing other muslims... Whether that's Iran, jihadis or whatever else.