More etiquette queries

[sabotabby]

Situation #1:

Dear Miss Manners Internets,

Frequently, and especially at work, older gentlemen with whom I am not well acquainted inquire as to the natural colour of my hair. They do not do so in the context of a discussion about hair or fashion. This is very different than the kids asking me about my hair (kids ask all sorts of personal questions, because they're kids), or co-workers commenting that they like my new colour.

Internets, it is very obvious that I do dye my hair, as my colour will, several times a year, dramatically change to a different shade of red. Despite how obvious this is, I am often plagued with men asking me:

1) Do you dye your hair?
2) Is that your natural colour?
3) What is your natural colour?

Dear internets, am I alone in feeling that this is rude?

Sincerely,
Hotheaded Ginger

Situation #2:

I find myself often eating dinner, alone, reading a book, at the same restaurant, where I'm on a first-name basis with some of the staff, who are quite lovely. I typically order the same thing—a mushroom and tofu dish. No one else has, to my knowledge, ever ordered that, because other people are always commenting on it.

Yesterday, another woman was dining there with an older gentleman. She proceeded to comment on my food and asked if I was a vegetarian. When I said I was, she asked me a number of questions about my dietary preferences and confessed that she was trying to be a vegetarian, but it was, I quote, "SO HARD." Note that I was reaching the exciting climax of my Serious Literary Book and this was much more interesting than answering the same goddamned questions about vegetarianism that I have to answer every time it gets out that I'm a vegetarian.

Am I too sensitive, Internets?

Sincerely,
I'm a Vegetarian, But I'd Make an Exception For You

[Poll #1646252]

Comments

[firinel.livejournal.com]

I would like to suggest that in the second situation, your answering her may have seemed to her to be your opening the door for a more in-depth conversation. Though, I can't imagine why she felt it was appropriate to talk to you in the first place -- I'm curious about how she got to know that your food was vegetarian - in this restaurant do you sit close enough to one another that she could reasonably hear you order, or that she could peer closely enough into your food to see that there was no meat?

[sabotabby]

Well, it's not a large restaurant, and it passed right by her. It was very obviously a tofu and veg dish. She also felt the need to comment on how healthy it looked and "good for you" that I didn't order rice with it.

[torontoteacher.livejournal.com]

The only time it would be reasonable for someone to comment on your food would be something like "mmmm.... that looks fabulous, do you remember what it's called on the menu" or something else like that. And even still, you could ask your server.

[sabotabby]

I wouldn't have minded that. I minded the extended inquiry into my dietary preferences.

[marnanel.livejournal.com]

I'm a Vegetarian, But I'd Make an Exception For You

sabotabby is awesome.

[sabotabby]

I have not eaten long pork. Yet.

[bike4fish.livejournal.com]

If I had paged down, I would have seen this. I always feel guilty about stepping on someone else's comments.

[chickenfeet2003.livejournal.com]

I often get asked if that thing on my left wrist is a tattoo. I have no idea what else it could be but since it's usually an intro to a compliment I just preen. I rarely get asked whether I dye my hair.

[sabotabby]

Ha ha.

What else could it be, though?

[eumelia.livejournal.com]

My first answer is actually "Yes, and stupid since Sabs' hair is obviously dyed" but that wasn't an option.

As a fellow vegetarian, I feel your pain.
This is a convo that happened at an eatery not too long ago:
Me: "I'd like to replace the chicken with tofu, please"
The Waiter (looking baffled): "Um, why?"
Me: "I'm vegetarian"
Him: "For health reasons?"
Me: "Because I don't eat meat!|"

*sigh*

[treehavn.livejournal.com]

At school one of my best friends was a veggie, and the post-war era kitchen staff could never quite get their heads around what that might entail. Case in point: 'But why won't you eat this chicken soup, I put eggplant* in it especially for you?'

*no idea why she used eggplant instead of aubergine either.

[revolution-grrl.livejournal.com]

The thing is, with these older gentlemen, that their "curiosity" is sexual in nature. Even if they're not asking about the drapes-curtain agreement question, they're thinking it. Also, a study I read a while back linked red hair on women, both natural and dyed, to people's perception of the woman's sexual availability. So, yeah, it's icky.

I think it's always rude to get chatty with people from another table while they're trying to eat. She probably figured that since you were alone, and "just" reading a book, you'd be hungry for the human interaction, for one thing, which is irritating. But also, it seems like vegetarianism is one of those Things that make people feel like they have an automatic right to talk to you, like babies, dogs, and those barefoot-running foot covers. This is understandable, and even maybe okay in some situations, but in this case, I think you'd have been justified had you thrown your drink in her face.

[frandroid.livejournal.com]

I think it's always rude to get chatty with people from another table while they're trying to eat.

Oh Jesus. I see from your profile that you aren't Torontonian, but you might as well be... Some of my most interesting conversations have happened from chatting up strangers in restaurants. Chatting up strangers unprompted is okay, if not done in a harassment type of way, i.e. talking about someone else's personal characteristics (pregnancy/baby/hair/diet), esp. for women.

I agree on the veg part though, people feel like they have licence to quiz our meals. Hey, do I go around asking why you're eating corpses, and you can live with yourself? Fuckers.

[krinndnz.livejournal.com]

I echo revolution_grrl - it seems like in both cases, people are committing the error of not seeing you as a full person. They may think they're being outgoing and gregarious, but they clearly haven't invested the thought and empathy to determine "perhaps this person would rather not be bothered." Which shouldn't be so dang hard.

I was recently vexed by a dude on the bus who was, essentially, practicing his stand-up routine on a captive audience. I also think that's not cool, so I might be over-sensitive to this sort of thing, to conversations where you'd like to say "kindly fuck off, I disagree with the idea that this conversation should be happening at all."

[sabotabby]

The thing is, I tend to consider a book in front of one's face being a clear signal. There are times where someone's reading something that I really like, and I want to interrupt them and talk about the book, but I resist the temptation.

I learned, for example, not to read Neil Gaiman on public transit. It gets me hit on by creepy guys way too much. Jose Saramago is less sexy, so I think if someone had interrupted me to mention how much they liked that book, it'd be understandable.

[smhwpf.livejournal.com]

Etiquette on starting a conversation with someone at another table varies from culture to culture I think. In some, e.g. Southern England, Sweden, one just doesn't open conversations with strangers without reason. In others, e.g. Northern England, it might be considered anti-social to just sit at one's table ignoring everyone around you. But if someone is reading a book, that's a clear sign that you want to be reading a book rather than talking to people.

But aside from that, it seems she was not talking to you out of a general desire for sociability, but because your mildly unusual food choice made you, in her eyes, the legitimate subject of curiosity and interrogation, and that is also rude.

[sabotabby]

It's generally considered okay in downtown Toronto, at least among my demographic. And while you don't see too many people eating and reading, people do that. I happen to live across the street from the restaurant, so I go there for Quiet Time.

[northbard.livejournal.com]

I think it's a standard example of people's privilege, but I admit my own annoyance level with either (I occasionally have intriguingly coloured hair) usually depends on my mood.

In the case of the latter, I know that changing food habits can be difficult for some, who feel alone in it, so I can sympathize with the desire to seek support and validation, even if it's an imposition. Again, depends on how nice I'm feeling.

[sabotabby]

People who say "I'm trying to be vegetarian" are never genuinely trying to be vegetarian. It's not hard, in downtown Toronto, to be a vegetarian. If you actually want to do it, no one is forcing you to eat meat. It's therefore less a gesture of solidarity or support-seeking and more a matter of condescension.

[kappsgurl.livejournal.com]

I know you probably get questions about vegetarianism a lot and it becomes tiresome to answer to strangers in that manner. Was it rude to interrupt you with your meal and your book? Maybe. But the question itself seems to come from a place of admiration. She wants to be like you! So I'd say she should be classified as "annoying" rather than rude.

[sabotabby]

I don't think she did. Like I said to northbard above, it isn't hard to be a vegetarian if you actually want to do it. People who say, "I'm trying to be vegetarian" (or worse, "I'm trying to be more vegetarian") aren't really trying.

[akisawana.livejournal.com]

Vegetarianism is not hard. I was raised sort-of vegetarian (my mother didn't feed us meat, but didn't freak out if other people did) in the days before they had vegetarian substitutes for everything. Also, I would only interrupt someone who was reading if, like, the building was on fire or other Clear and Present Danger.

[sabotabby]

I've been vegetarian for 18 years, which is longer than I haven't been vegetarian.* The hardest thing about it is people making stupid comments when I'm trying to read a book.

* Excepting my annual Cheat Day in recent years.

[90pointmetaphor.livejournal.com]

The most awkward vegetarian questions come when it's with a client. Most of the time this is with people for whom the concept is extremely foreign, and I'm trying to avoid having conversations which get too personal/political especially in areas which have nothing to do with the work. (In contrast, I didn't feel awkward the one time the person I was talking to was a Hindu guy who noted that his wife and kids were all vegetarian but he wasn't.)

[sabotabby]

Oddly enough, it's not awkward in the classroom, just because there are so many Hindu kids. Even if they aren't vegetarian, they at least understand the concept. And Muslims all understand dietary restrictions. The second I'm around co-workers, the stupid comments come out.

[misslynx.livejournal.com]

I've had the hair question a zillion times, so I guess I'm kind of used to it, and it doesn't bother me (for those who don't know me, my hair is dark brown, but happened to start going grey all in one spot before moving on anywhere else, so I have a prominent silver streak near the front, which seems to make many people curious as to whether it's natural or bleached).

On the food thing, I've encountered that too, and whether I consider it rude or not would depend on the situation. If I'm just eating, on my own, and doing nothing else, I am likely not going to be bothered by someone asking me questions about vegetarianism or something. But if they try and talk to me while I'm reading? Death.

[sabotabby]

Well, you have awesome hair. My hair is not, I don't think, that unique beyond its general messiness.

...reading a stream-of-consciousness book with few paragraph breaks and OH DEAR GOD IT WAS GOOD.

[cannibal-x.livejournal.com]

Hmm.. The hair thing is creepy, but I think the food thing is just harmless. Annoying, but harmless..

[sabotabby]

I think I'm just sick of the food thing. I get it all the time, when I don't consider it in any way an exceptional lifestyle choice.

[qraccoon.livejournal.com]

The hair comment is borderline creepy, but interupting a reading person is rude. As an avid reader, anyone who tries to talk to me while I am reading gets the death stare (tm).

[sabotabby]

She just got the weary-of-your-stupid-shit stare.

[geneticallydead.livejournal.com]

The problem with eating out is that it's generally regarded as a Social Activity, even when one is alone and reading a book. Clearly, in those circumstances, the book is just to fill in the time until some kind soul takes pity on you, and engages you in their Social Aspect of a Social Activity. Doesn't matter thatin your ass, it's just food, it's food that's not in your house. So obviously you are in want of conversation.

Maybe start telling those who enquire that it is not tofu, but long pig you're eating?

[sabotabby]

This is a solution I like.

I wasn't alone! I was with Jose Saramago.

[sabotabby]

I'm also a humanitarian.

(I think I'd have actually eaten the woman had she said that, given that my oh-so-interesting dish was basically a huge heap of tofu.)

[ironed_orchid]

When my hair was short and purple, my geeky friend invented the best answer "My hair was attacked by a Himalayan relative of the cochineal beetle."

[sabotabby]

Did people really ask? Wow.

[bike4fish.livejournal.com]

While not dyed, my beard seems to open me up to a lot of comments. I find the ZZ Top and "do you play guitar" mildly irritating (lack of originality, really). I'm better disposed to Jerry Garcia and Willie Nelson (when braided), and I usually reply to "Santa!" with "You must be mistaken. I'm far too evil."

Half the population in Boulder seems to be vegetarian, and another quarter was vegetarian at some point, so I've rarely gotten questioned about that recently.

I suppose I'm a social book reader, something like a social drinker(?). I combine the two frequently, so I suspect I'm more likely to be interrupted than were I sitting at a table. I don't mind being interrupted (and often participate in conversations while reading), as long as the interrupter isn't obnoxious. (When I'm reading, it can take up to 2 minutes for me to notice that I am being interrupted.) Actually, a book is a good thing to have when sitting at a bar - I can drop into the book and ignore the drunk blathering next to me.

[sabotabby]

Dressing up, as I frequently do, also garners a lot of dumb comments. ("Is it Halloween?" is one I find particularly unoriginal and distasteful, as I've been getting it regularly since around about 13). I honestly don't know why people feel the need to comment on the appearance or dietary habits of other strangers. At least commenting on a book makes some sense.