sabotabby: raccoon anarchy symbol (go fuck yourself)
[personal profile] sabotabby
1. The shooter is probably mentally ill, so the attack is probably not politically motivated.

This, to me, is a disturbing statement, both because of its ableism and because of its denial of agency. I have clinical depression but I am also politically left-wing. Glenn Beck is bipolar and is a fascist. Many suicide bombers are mentally ill, and yet this can be conveniently forgotten if the perpetrator is brown. (Only white people are mentally ill, right?)

Most paranoid schizophrenics manage not to kill people. No paranoid schizophrenic, unless he or she is living in the wilderness, is entirely isolated from social, cultural, and political context.

2. The shooter may not be a card-carrying member of any political party or movement, so the attack is not political.

It's a very American idea, really, that one has to be registered as a voting member of a political party to be considered political. I'm a socialist, but this can mean all sorts of things. I'm not a member of any political party (the only political card I hold is an IWW red card, and I can hardly be considered an active member these days), but I still somehow manage to hold political opinions.

I was at a G20 rally yesterday. It was an interesting mix of people, including some folks I can only assume were undercover cops. There were very few familiar faces and a staggering variety of political opinions, many of which I don't hold. I'm not a pro-pot activist*, a Trotskyist, a member of the NDP, an anarchist, or a 9/11 conspiracy theorist, but all of those people were there, strange bedfellows for a sort of nebulous cause, and grouped, however uncomfortably, under the broad political designation of "left."

The right, in North America, is nearly as diverse and just as full of internal contradiction, if a little better organized. One cannot simply assume that an individual is not politically right-wing because they don't vote Republican, or because they smoke pot. We can consider anti-government militia types and people who think that the government should have staggeringly more power as broadly right-wing, just as we can consider anarchists and Stalinists as broadly left-wing.


3. The guns at political events issue.

Funnily enough, I was just remarking the other day that I don't understand why there's not a huge movement of gun owners in favour of gun control. Granted, the gun enthusiasts I know may not be typical (hardcore types who want to be prepared come the revolution, sport shooters, and hunters), but beyond the revolutionary argument for gun ownership and perhaps financial considerations, I really can't imagine a logical argument against licensing and regulation. It seems like this could be an area of common ground between the right and the left, but American right-wingers really do seem to think there should be no restrictions on weapons whatsoever.

When I hear about people openly carrying guns to town hall events, it makes me wonder why there aren't more assassination attempts, or at least accidents. Honestly, Americans, you don't get how weird that looks to the rest of the world.

4. Both sides have extremes.

This is wishy-washy liberalism at its worst. The American left is flaccid, passive, and fairly right-wing by global standards. Some people on the American right use Mexican migrants as target practice, others call for torture and assassination, and some openly admit that they can't wait for the apocalypse. There's no balance here, folks. Also, calling someone a "teabagger" is not the same as calling someone an "illegal," or worse.

5. Words have power/words don't have power.

When Ward Churchill wrote "Some People Push Back: On the Justice of Roosting Chickens" in 2001, the right (and large swaths of the left) went after him. Only the far-left granted him any sort of "right to free speech"; to the rest of North American political society, there was little distinction between a perceived justification of terrorist acts and actually committing terrorist acts. The right now seems to think that death threats are protected speech, so long as they're directed against the centre or left, and cannot be linked to actual acts of violence.

Just as asinine, of course, is the argument that political rhetoric alone will create a new Rwanda in the U.S., but I've seen much less of that argument on the intertubes.

6. The Nazis were left-wing.

What? I keep seeing this everywhere. What are they teaching in these schools?

7. You shouldn't politicize tragedy.

Really? No, really? Why the hell not?

* I think pot should be legal, don't get me wrong. I'm just incredibly apathetic about it.

Date: 2011-01-09 09:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] upstart-crow.livejournal.com
Pretty much in full agreement with you, especially on point 1. point one is really frightening and upsetting me because it is ALWAYS the first question anyone asks.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] upstart-crow.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-09 09:24 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2011-01-09 09:17 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] radiumhead.livejournal.com
Oh my god, #4 drives me INSANE. The republican crazies outnumber the democrat crazies like, 50 to 1. And whenever you point out on line that in general republicans are crazy assholes, someone brings up one crazy democrat and says "well what about so and so?" THAT DOESNT BLALANCE IT OUT. ITS NOT EVEN CLOSE.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] terry-terrible.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-10 05:36 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofflewomp.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-11 08:51 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofflewomp.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-11 08:57 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2011-01-09 09:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jvmatucha.livejournal.com
My name is Jeffrey and I find this comment to be awesome in the extreme.

thanks.

From: [identity profile] radiumhead.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-09 09:25 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] marnanel.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-09 09:25 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2011-01-09 09:22 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jvmatucha.livejournal.com
Many suicide bombers are mentally ill, and yet this can be conveniently forgotten if the perpetrator is brown. (Only white people are mentally ill, right?)

She shoots, she scores!

Did you ever watch this?

http://jvmatucha.livejournal.com/411493.html

Would you mind if I linked to this post?

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] jvmatucha.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-09 09:38 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] jvmatucha.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-10 10:23 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2011-01-09 09:25 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] eumelia.livejournal.com
#2 is very US-centric. There can be no doubt what my political affiliation is and I'm not affiliated with anyone. So strange and a very sterile way of thinking and doing politics.

#4 makes me want shave my head so I don't have to tear my head out. I hate that so much. "You're only showing your side" FFS!

#6 The Nazi's were left wing because they were socialists, duh! National Socialism, hello!

#7 Because tragedy is personal and private and other kinds of illogical BS that comes from people who don't understand that tragedy (but not everything that is tragic) is a spectacle and thus always political.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] marnanel.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-09 09:28 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] icedrake.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-10 01:09 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] lokilokust.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-09 11:15 pm (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] springheel-jack.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-10 12:30 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2011-01-09 09:29 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] marnanel.livejournal.com
I wish more people thought as clearly as you do, and that they spoke about it as clearly.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] firinel.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-09 11:03 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2011-01-09 11:05 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] troubleinchina.livejournal.com
I have about a million thoughts about all of this (as you can imagine) but #2 is an argument my father makes all the time. He considers me not to be involved in politics because I'm no longer a card-carrying member of a political party, nor will I ever be again, and thus, obviously, I am not involved in, nor do I care about, politics. I wonder if it's an age thing, frankly.

Date: 2011-01-09 11:15 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lokilokust.livejournal.com
i love you for this.

Date: 2011-01-10 12:13 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] poetic-pixie-13.livejournal.com
This post makes me so, so happy. Thanks for it.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] goodlookinout.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-10 10:39 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2011-01-10 12:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] springheel-jack.livejournal.com
The second amendment / gun culture produces a lot of really hilarious and weird results, like a huge army of guys openly toting semi-auto pistols and everyone having to publicly say that it's not therefore a paramilitary attempting to intimidate their opponents. It's just Individuals Choosing to Exercise a Right.

You can't get into secret-service protected events with a gun, of course. Nobody gets within a quarter mile of the President who is packing, even in concealed-carry states. I expect that sort of thing to be expanded after this. Lots more metal detectors and backscatter nudie-rama machines. Just like in Israel, another country where people openly tote weapons all the time; the price is that you have to be inspected all the time and, of course, profiled.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] springheel-jack.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-10 05:07 am (UTC) - Expand

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] terry-terrible.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-10 05:44 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2011-01-10 12:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] springheel-jack.livejournal.com
Sometimes in these discussions I feel like I'm the dumb American in Whit Stillman's "Barcelona."

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] springheel-jack.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-10 05:06 am (UTC) - Expand
(deleted comment)

Date: 2011-01-10 01:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] icedrake.livejournal.com
I can certainly see why the US right would be making argument #1. If you convince people this attack was caused (wholly or in large part) by mental illness, then the violent rhetoric they've been spouting isn't to blame, and neither are they.

The argument they seem to be making is "no *reasonable* person would have listened to us/thought we were calling for the violent elimination of our political opponents, so we aren't responsible for this!"

Constrain and narrow down the definition of "reasonable" and "person" as needed to explain away your little embarrassing incident du jour.

Date: 2011-01-10 02:16 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] cacahuate.livejournal.com
Ugh, all of this.

I am glad you exist, Sabs.

Date: 2011-01-10 04:05 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] mistersmearcase.livejournal.com
Honestly I sort of wonder if 2 is happening because both sides are nervous, in the absence of much information, he'll belong to them, so everybody wants plausible deniability.

Date: 2011-01-10 05:27 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] terry-terrible.livejournal.com
2. While there are many strands and cultural currents behind the American right, I think it's much more homogenious than the left. The American left has always been like this since the 1890s and the birth of modern trade unionism. But now that American trade unionism has been so dangerously underminded, there is no more "neutral" territory where people from differing backgtounds or issues can come together and form a concensous. The left now seems to be over 9000 special interest groups who might agree with other special interest groups (say a person is organizing on legalizing pot is also pro choice, but will only lend passive support to pro-choice causes). This is also reflected in the incoherence of modern leftist protests. Like when pro-Palestine supporters show up at a demonstration against immigration policies. Yes, the two causes can be linked, but leftists are bad at translating long disrotations about imperialism and human rights in to 30 second sound bites.

Getting back on track here, the right is much more coherent and homogenious because they organize and recruit through Christian churches. Though the Mormons, Catholics and Pentecostals can't agree on theology, they can agree who they hate and thier rejection of modernism.


3. When I hear about people openly carrying guns to town hall events, it makes me wonder why there aren't more assassination attempts, or at least accidents.

I do to. Actually the very low level of politcal violence in American since the 1970s has been quite remarkable.

4. 4. Both sides have extremes.

Every time I hear this phrase I want to projectile vomit. One of my pet-peeves is that it's said in ignorance of context (ideaology and motivation)

5.6. The Nazis were left-wing.


Historical Amnesia.

7. You shouldn't politicize tragedy

Really? No, really? Why the hell not?


FTW!

Date: 2011-01-10 05:35 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] terry-terrible.livejournal.com
p.s. And the meme of "crazy loner assasin" or "crazy fundamentalist/ideaological extremist assasin" completly ignores that the people they target (politicians) are sometimes mentally ill themselves. But because thier narcissism and ruthlessnes has brought them fame and power thier actions, are of course, beyond reproach no matter how many they may indirectly kill.

I heard that there was a shooting were several people were killed in Oakland this weekend. I want to see those victim's faces plastered on CNN 24/7 and people gather for candle-lit vigil for them, just for one day.

Date: 2011-01-10 06:19 am (UTC)
ironed_orchid: watercolour and pen style sketch of a brown tabby cat curl up with her head looking up at the viewer and her front paw stretched out on the left (Default)
From: [personal profile] ironed_orchid
All of the above.

Damn.


Someone's probably already said it, but maybe people people take the phrase National Socialism too seriously.

Date: 2011-01-10 07:40 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] sadie-sabot.livejournal.com
thank you for this.

Date: 2011-01-10 09:26 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rohmie.livejournal.com
Keith Olberman also pointed out that politics and mental illness are not mutually exclusive. His point was when you pump a lot of paranoid hate into the political atmosphere, you raise the likelihood that some unhinged person will take your violent metaphors literally.

However, I also think that when one says a gunman is "crazy rather than politically motivated" they are thinking of someone like Hinkley who shot Reagan because he wanted to move into the White House with Jodi Foster.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] sphinctourist.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-12 02:35 pm (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2011-01-10 11:06 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pofflewomp.livejournal.com
I'm too tired to concentrate, and not read much news as been on holiday. But I have been meaning to ask you as Someone Who Knows Things about something my dad said the other week about how the U.S. gun-owning weirdness originally came from the right to bear arms against the government in protest if the government went Bad. Is this so? I always thought it originated with the right to defend one's property etc, having learned about John Locke and Libertarianism at A Level many years ago.

I always thought Stalinism was right wing. "The further left you go, the more right wing you become."

Yes about mental health and deranged gunmen. I assumed all right wingers were mad, but then I've never been one for being sensible or polite or bothering to look beyond wild hyperbole for subtle possibilities or any suchlike.

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofflewomp.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-11 08:35 am (UTC) - Expand

Date: 2011-01-10 11:19 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] pofflewomp.livejournal.com
Did you hear about this?
I am shocked at the lengths the police go to!
Also I am worried that people will think I am an undercover policewoman.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2011/jan/10/mark-kennedy-undercover-cop-activist

(no subject)

From: [identity profile] pofflewomp.livejournal.com - Date: 2011-01-11 08:39 am (UTC) - Expand

Profile

sabotabby: raccoon anarchy symbol (Default)
sabotabby

June 2025

S M T W T F S
1 23 45 67
891011121314
15161718192021
22232425262728
2930     

Style Credit

Page generated Jun. 6th, 2025 03:54 pm
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags

Most Popular Tags