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[personal profile] sabotabby
I noticed that no one immediately took issue with my statement yesterday that anger is the emotion most likely to produce change. So that's uncontroversial, at least on my friends list. Well, duh.

Notice that hardly any of you were encouraged to express anger when you were children or teenagers.

Boys and girls alike, most of you were either encouraged to repress it or your anger was ignored. I don't think that my friends list is a very representative sample, though. ([livejournal.com profile] wlach pointed out, when we were discussing this, that boys who were encouraged to express their anger are less likely to have grown into the sorts of people who would read my friends list.) And in hindsight, I should have broken down "encouraged to channel anger into productive activities" into physical activities vs. non-physical activities, because it's also a gendered distinction. When I was growing up, I tended to channel my anger through writing and art. Cathartic though this may have been, these are both introverted and isolated activities, making me far more prone to repressing my anger than if I'd, say, taken up boxing.

If anger leads to change, then it follows that those lower on the totem pole would be the most encouraged to repress their anger. I'd wager that white liberal moviegoers tend to prefer scenes of Indians calmly lining up to get their heads cracked in by the British in Gandhi over Algerian guerrillas blowing up the French in The Battle of Algiers. But because breaking it down by other systems of oppression (class, geography, ethnic background, sexual orientation, etc.) would have gotten far too complicated for a quick LJ survey, So, sex. My suspicion was that those socialized as girls would be discouraged from expressing anger more frequently than those socialized as boys.



This wasn't confirmed in questions 2–4, but like I said, my friends list is probably atypical that way. (I wonder whether other groups of people are as likely to list injustice as their top rage-inducer.)

The next set of questions were more telling. My home life was very different than my school life; though introverted by virtue of having talkative parents, at home I was told that girls should stand up for themselves. Outside of the home, my socialization conformed much more faithfully to mainstream notions of power and gender hegemony.

Confession time: I actually was a Brownie. Don't ask me why I got the notion in my head (I think it was because I was nature-girl and I thought it'd be like Scouts, with camping expeditions and rope-tying and such), but I went through the thing and they were happy to get rid of me at the wing-sprouting ceremony or whatever.

Anyway, every week we had to repeat a pledge to think of others before ourselves. Survey says that Boy Scouts did not have to do this. While I think that in some ways, it is good to think of others before oneself (I'm an activist, after all), this only works as a cultural ethos if everyone is putting other people first. Otherwise, you have girls being trained to put boys first, and boys trained to put themselves first, and what does that sound like to you?

The next question was vaguer and more open to interpretation. But check out the numbers: 35.3% of girls were told to "speak up" by adults, versus 45% percent of boys. Half of girls weren't, versus 35% of boys.

Which brings me back to one of the prompts for this skientifical survey: Being told, mostly by men, that I'm "too angry."

What does "too angry" mean? In one recent conversation, it had to do with me being too angry about things that aren't within my power to change. There are things that aren't within my power to change that I'm happy about, though, and no one ever accuses me of being too happy. (And I disagreed, at least in part, that some things weren't within my power to change. Certainly, it was true on an individual level, but I've never held that one's individual actions were terribly important in the grand scheme of things. That's why we have mass movements.)

So among the emotions typically thought of as negative, we have fear and sadness. There's a greater acceptance when women channel negative reactions into either one of these. [livejournal.com profile] caprinus hit the nail on the head in terms of what I was trying to find out with this survey:
Similar chemistry governs anger and fear. They are basically one kind of response (acute stress response) with a number of possible situational expressions, from "fight" (anger) to "flight" (fear). I think sabotabby is curious to see whether the situational expressions seem dependent on the differences in nurture given boys and girls in our cultural environment, encouraging anger in boys and fear in girls. An alternative explanation would be that the differences are genetically/hormonally hardwired to some degree; as with everything else about behaviour, it's probably a mix. But what proportions? And what should be nurtured if both gender's best interest was at heart of rearing? (i.e. outside of patriarchy)
Being a rather angry girl myself, despite social conditioning to the contrary, I'm inclined to go with nurture over nature. It's taken a long time for me to go from internalizing anger to expressing it. That's probably lost me some friends and made my life considerably more difficult. Even now, I value self-sacrifice and repression far more than I should.

To get the last question, check out David Brin's essays about Star Wars. He Godwins all over the place (and totally lets Western democracy and racist stereotypes off the hook), but he makes a good point:
The biggest moral flaw in the "Star Wars" universe is one point that Lucas stresses over and over again, through the voice of his all-wise guru character, Yoda.

Let's see if I get this right. Fear makes you angry and anger makes you evil, right?

Now I'll concede at once that fear has been a major motivator of intolerance in human history. I can picture knightly adepts being taught to control fear and anger, as we saw credibly in "The Empire Strikes Back." Calmness makes you a better warrior and prevents mistakes. Persistent wrath can cloud judgment. That part is completely believable.

But then, in "Return of the Jedi," Lucas takes this basic wisdom and perverts it, saying -- "If you get angry -- even at injustice and murder -- it will automatically and immediately transform you into an unalloyedly evil person! All of your opinions and political beliefs will suddenly and magically reverse. Every loyalty will be forsaken and your friends won't be able to draw you back. You will instantly join your sworn enemy as his close pal or apprentice. All because you let yourself get angry at his crimes."

Uh, say what? Could you repeat that again, slowly?

In other words, getting angry at Adolf Hitler will cause you to rush right out and join the Nazi Party? Excuse me, George. Could you come up with a single example of that happening? Ever?

That contention is, in itself, a pretty darn evil thing to preach. Above all, it is just plain dumb.
Okay, that tangent was excessively geeky (I could also talk about the "deadly sin" of wrath, but "Star Wars" is more fun to talk about), but I'd assert that the repression of anger remains an effective means of social control.

Or as the bumper sticker says, "If you're not angry, you're not paying attention."

Date: 2006-08-30 04:33 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] groovitude.livejournal.com
Italics alert!

Also, I'm pretty sure that David Brin is mischaracterizing the connection between anger and going to the dark side of the force. Anger at the Nazis atrocities may not make you a Nazi. Anger at Saddam's atrocities, on the other hand, will make you a neo-Con. I think the correct way of making that link would be to say that being slave to our anger entraps us in a manichean view of humanity--one that can only see good and evil, and no grey areas in between.

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Date: 2006-08-30 08:37 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rohmie.livejournal.com
Anger at the Nazis atrocities may not make you a Nazi. Anger at Saddam's atrocities, on the other hand, will make you a neo-Con.

But not one of Neo-Conservatism's original architects since they were, of course, the accomplices to many of Saddam's atrocities. But I digress. You said what I was about to. It seems Mr. Brin has never heard of any conflict in which atrocities were committed by both sides fueling the conflagration. That never happens.

Date: 2006-08-30 04:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jk-fabiani.livejournal.com
anger is the emotion most likely to produce change. So that's uncontroversial, at least on my friends list. Well, duh.

It will produce change, but typically that change is for the worse, long term. YMMV

Notice that hardly any of you were encouraged to express anger when you were children or teenagers.

I split home when I turned 15. I realized my father and I would probally end up killing each other (just like he did to the vietcong!) and so I left.

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Date: 2006-08-31 04:04 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] ex-melimeli728.livejournal.com
anger is an interesting thing. i agree with you in part, and with sabotabby in part. it actually produces limited change, I think. anger can be a creative force- it can give energy, to build, etc. but it can also blind you to what you're building. anger feels good, in a way, it feels way better to be angry than to be hurt, and so we funnel pain into anger. again, it can help us in the short term, but if you know any profoundly angry people, you will notice, unfailably, that they don't seem to change so much themselves. they tend to stay... well, somehow it's like they continually manifest or create the situation they are running from or fighting. like they carry it with them.

i think the real problem in american society is not that we are not encouraged to express our anger. well, that is also a problem. but a deeper problem, it seems to me, is people's inability to touch into the pain that is at the root of their anger. maybe because that pain is too profound... but when you just ignore it, and feel the huge lifting energy of anger, somehow you stay moored in one place and thing, without evolving.

that doesn't just have consequences for your personhood and self and all that mumbo jumbo. it has serious consequences for how one behaves in the world, what contribution one makes, what solutions one can think of and work for, and especially, especially consequences for the self-control required to do the thing that changes the world for the better, rather than the thing that makes us feel the better by getting out our anger. somehow, these things are easier to see in the realm of personal relationships, but on the larger scale we tend to ignore them.

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Date: 2006-08-30 04:47 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] gabski.livejournal.com
hey.. you seem to have a lot of connects... pass this link on to save PBS and NPR!!! im shamelessly promoting "damning the man" i hope you dont mind me hijacking your post...

http://civic.moveon.org/publicbroadcasting/

Date: 2006-08-30 04:50 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jk-fabiani.livejournal.com
Uh, say what? Could you repeat that again, slowly?

In other words, getting angry at Adolf Hitler will cause you to rush right out and join the Nazi Party? Excuse me, George. Could you come up with a single example of that happening? Ever?


Examples of becoming your enemy? Dresden. Hiroshima. Why did we bomb all those civilians again?

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Date: 2006-08-30 05:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frandroid.livejournal.com
Hiroshima

That was America's very zen response to Pearl Harbour!

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Date: 2006-08-30 07:28 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] terry-terrible.livejournal.com
Examples of becoming your enemy? Dresden. Hiroshima.


>>>>> But that's presuming that you weren't your own enemies in the first. The Americans and British were slaughtering people with gusto years before that. The differences between prior bad acts and those examples are the scale and the methods used to achieve that scale, not the bloodthirstiness behind the actions.

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Date: 2006-08-30 05:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] springheel-jack.livejournal.com
I'm angry in that "angry young man" intellectual way, but in practice I'm usually pretty placid. Though I might seethe a bit. I seem much more, well, intense, in writing than in person.

In any case, I find fear more personally motivating than anger. I'm mad at a lot of things but I notice that the causes that actually get my time and attention have more to do with calamities I fear could actually happen to me or my nearest and dearest. Civil rights, health care reform. This is a selfish way to behave, but the alternative is to throw darts at a board labeled with all the causes I support, so as to be truly impartial.

The way to cure it is to meet more sorts of people. Then I'll have nearest and dearest all over the place. That's what they call "cosmopolitanism."

Date: 2006-08-30 05:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] frandroid.livejournal.com
I find this whole conversation quite hilarious. I posted Brin's essay in my own LJ but now thinking about it, I think anger is also mostly portrayed as leading the Dark Side in Star Trek as well. Think about when Picard gets angry, and if that ever leads to anything good. Most often, if Picard is angry, it's because people point out some failing of his and he's got too much ego to admit it. The only Trek (in TNG, anyway) character who is allowed to be angry for the Better Good is Worf, and that is because he is a dark, angry male beast. (He's Russian to boot! I just realized that Roddenberry completely closed the circle on another metaphor there.)

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Date: 2006-08-30 07:13 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] terry-terrible.livejournal.com
"my statement yesterday that anger is the emotion most likely to produce change"

No it isn't, its love!

*holds up peace sign and ducks*

lol.

Date: 2006-08-30 07:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] realcdaae.livejournal.com
All excellently put.

Surely the point is at least partly what one does with the anger? There are huge amounts of things to feel justifiably angry about. The "fight" response isn't necessarily bad, and for most of us the "fight" response doesn't involve any kind of violence but simply the act of speaking out, refusing to stay silent and afraid, standing up for ourselves.

It's interesting (to me at least) to note that psychotherapists regard depression as anger turned inwards. It took me a few years to recognize that that could possibly be true in my case, because I'd learned to suppress certain kinds of anger so much I didn't even realize I was (or should be) angry. I can't help noticing that the one area where it was permissable to express a certain amount of anger in my family was around "causes" - it was okay for me to be angry about animals being experimented on, but not okay for me to be angry about shit in my life. My mother would (and still will) come out with annoying crap about how life's unfair and we just have to accept that when I talk about certain political topics, but the main times any of my political anger becomes "unacceptable" to my family are when it's something "too close to home" - if I rant about stupid politicians in the paper talking about kicking people with depression off disability benefit, for instance.

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Date: 2006-08-30 08:18 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rohmie.livejournal.com
I noticed that no one immediately took issue with my statement yesterday that anger is the emotion most likely to produce change.

"... It started to make me a little mad. Not angry - hell, that's what the situation calls for - I mean mad as in slightly un-c-c-c-c-c-c-controllable ..."

- Utah Phillips, We Have Fed You All a Thousand Years (quoted from memory)

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Date: 2006-08-30 09:10 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] bike4fish.livejournal.com
I think anger can be a useful motivator to figure out what is going on and to develop a response to what makes one angry, but if it goes beyond that, if it becomes the prime driver behind an action, it generally has bad effect. It tends to suppress thinking, and pushes the world into black/white, us/them. In some ways, anger should work the same way as pain, a signal that something is wrong. Once the problem is recognised, though, thinking is usually a better guide to fixing the problem than being driven by the sensation.

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Date: 2006-08-30 11:52 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brownfist.livejournal.com
Do you know what is weird? I have Phil Och's on. I am sitting in the middle of the bloody suburbs of San Francisco and I just decided that I need a Frantz Fanon poster. So I did my searches on ebay.com etc. and nothing came up. Now am I to believe that no one immortalized Fanon with a poster? Well I think that since I am probably going to move to a new place and I am going to have posters of Bhagat Singh up on my wall, I should also have Fanon up. For all those who dont know, Bhagat Singh was an Indian who wasnt willing to have his head cracked by the fucking English and Fanon was a black man who wasnt waiting for the colonized elite to make a few deals over green maize tables (as was what happened in India). So I figure that if there is a place for these two revolutionaries to meet (sorry folks I am an atheist no heaven and hell for me) it might as well be my house. So who is willing to help me design the first ever Fanon poster?

Date: 2006-08-30 11:59 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] smhwpf.livejournal.com
Actually, the thought that's just occured to me is that a rather better treatment, in some ways, of 'Anger leading to the Dark Side' than Star Wars, is Angel Season 2. Angel is rightly and justifiably angry at Wolfram & Hart. But he allows that anger to almost swallow him up. It's not that he suddenly switches sides and joins W&H, far from it, and it's not just that he starts fighting them in morally dubious ways, but he loses his connection with humanity, he loses any sense of hope, and his battle seems to become more about getting the bad guys than about making things better for their victims. His anger becomes disconnected from compassion.

I can identify. Recent war in Lebanon, I was inwardly cheering every Israeli soldier killed. Not liking myself for it, but that was the way of it. See the progression? Compassion for the Palestinians. Anger at injustice. Anger at Israeli brutality, at Israeli soldiers. Wanting to see Israeli soldiers get some of what they were dishing out. Wanting to see them killed. And if you don't watch it, wanting to see dead Israeli soldiers can become the dominant emotion.

Anger can be a force for good. Where it becomes dangerous is when it is divorced from compassion. And if you can't maintain at least some sort of compassion for the people you're angry at as well, chances are you're not going to hold onto it very strongly for anyone else.

I think the thing that is most likely to cause anger to turn dark is a sense of powerlessness, of impotence. If you can channel your anger into doing something you feel is actually meaningful to do with the thing you're angry about, then it will remain a positive thing.

Angel turned 'dark' after Darla was turned. When all the efforts he had put into saving her came to naught, and he was left powerless in the face of this seemingly unstoppable machine that was Wolfram & Hart.

Date: 2006-08-31 12:54 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] brownfist.livejournal.com
Hey man, your the one always complaining that you dont have the time and your overworked. When your done with all the IWW stuff (of which there is a lot) then you can work on the Fanon poster. :) Just so that you know. No poster will go up on my wall till Fanon is ready!

Date: 2006-08-31 02:33 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rohmie.livejournal.com
If nobody else has already pointed this out, I have rather belatedly encountered a song which probably sums up JMPP's slumming experience. It's William Shatner "singing" "Common People" with Joe Jackson.

Shatner's "I Can't Get Behind That" with Henry Rollins is also worth a listen.

Date: 2006-08-31 02:46 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] rohmie.livejournal.com
Better lyrics - below all the annoying crap.

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